Creative Space with Jennifer Logue
My name is Jennifer Logue and I’m on a mission to make creativity accessible to all. Through conversations with artists, entrepreneurs, filmmakers, musicians, scientists, and so much more, we’ll be exploring creativity from every possible angle with the purpose of learning and growing in creativity together. New episodes are released every Sunday and you can listen anywhere you get your podcasts. Be sure to rate and review the podcast if you enjoy it, and remember, we are all born creative. Make some space to honor your creativity today.
Creative Space with Jennifer Logue
Rod Kim On 90s Nostalgia, Songwriting Hustle, and TikTok Fame
In this episode of Creative Space, host Jennifer Logue chats with Rod Kim, a multifaceted creative who wears many hats—songwriter, TikTok influencer, and podcast host of Rod Kim’s Millennial Sleepover. From crafting music for high-profile clients like the Philadelphia Phillies and Google to building a devoted TikTok following as a 90s nostalgia guru, Rod shares his incredible journey in the entertainment industry.
Together, Jennifer and Rod explore:
- His creative evolution from the Delaware music scene to life in Los Angeles.
- Insights into his songwriting process for artists, TikTok influencers, and corporate clients.
- The challenges and rewards of creating in a fast-paced digital age.
- How TikTok unexpectedly launched his brand to new heights.
- The inspiration behind his new podcast, Rod Kim’s Millennial Sleepover.
Whether you’re an artist, songwriter, or simply a fan of creative journeys, this episode is packed with wisdom, humor, and inspiration.
For more about Rod Kim, visit: https://rodkim.com.
To learn more about Jennifer Logue, visit: https://jenniferlogue.com.
SHOW NOTES:
0:00 — Introduction
1:13 — Rod Kim’s Journey: From Delaware to Los Angeles
9:00 — Discovering Songwriting and the Influence of Diane Warren
16:00 — The Evolving Role of Songwriters in the Digital Age
20:28 — The Viral TikTok Moment That Changed Everything
30:00 — Behind the Scenes of Rod Kim’s Millennial Sleepover
40:20 — The Importance of Teamwork in Creative Projects
52:15 — Balancing Creativity, Social Media, and Personal Fulfillment
1:00:00 — Rod’s Definition of Creativity
1:09:00 — Closing Thoughts
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Creative Space, a podcast where we explore, learn and grow in creativity together. I'm your host, jennifer Logue, and today's episode is one I'm especially excited to share with you. Joining me is Rod Kim, a talented songwriter, tiktok influencer and all-around creative force based in Los Angeles. Rod has made a name for himself in the entertainment industry by composing music for everyone, from the Philadelphia Phillies to Google, but his creativity doesn't stop there. He's also built a strong presence on platforms like YouTube and TikTok, where he connects with fans as a self-proclaimed 90s nostalgia junkie. In today's conversation, we'll dive into Rod's journey as a songwriter, his transition into digital media and his creative process. We'll also explore his latest project, his podcast, rod Kim's Millennial Sleepover. Welcome to Creative Space, rod. So, rod, where are you calling from today?
Rod Kim:I'm here in my home in Los Angeles, california. I've been here for close to nine years now. Here in a couple of months. I've been here for nine years spent.
Jennifer Logue:I've been here for nine years. Wow, that's incredible. I have to ask you're originally from my area? You're from Delaware kind of.
Rod Kim:So I did grow up in Indiana but I moved to Delaware after college for for a day job and then I toured for a while and then I kind of came back to Delaware. So Delaware was probably roughly about a decade of my life, so it'd be fair to say that I was from there at some point.
Jennifer Logue:Cool. So what prompted your move to LA from the East Coast?
Rod Kim:It always kind of been on the radar. But while I was touring I toured on and off, even when I had day jobs for close to a couple decades, and there was something about this place that was, I know there's a creative energy and I think I don't know it, maybe it's the weather, maybe it's the weather and, um, the industry that just draws people here. But like I remember, before moving here, uh, a friend's grandparents were trying to talk me out of moving here. So we went to lunch and they were like rod, you know, here in delaware you're, you're a few, you know musicians and creative people and stuff, and when you move out there you'll be one of thousands. You know, like we won't be able to get away from them. And I was like that sounds less like a threat and more of a promise to me, like that sounds awesome.
Rod Kim:You know, and I loved the music community out in Delaware. I even remember saying at the Homey Awards one year no matter, I'm great, I was drunk, but I meant it like whatever happens from here on out, this was the place it started, because I mean I went to school for music in the midwest and everything, but like my adult years out of the you know academic sphere was in Delaware. That's where I like cut my teeth that you know the queen theater and all the coffee shops and kenneth flash and stuff. So it started. And uh, wstw's hometown heroes and stuff. Like yeah, this is where it started. So like I'll, that will always be part of my history. But, that being said, something in los angeles like whether it be the actual creatives or the audience or the business people or a combination of everybody, there's a value in um, that being or belief that that is a full-time gig.
Rod Kim:You know because it is, especially when you see how granular it gets. Like, um, I don't spend a ton of time on like movie sets and stuff, but I feel like when you live here long enough, you just kind of are somehow, and so I was gonna see people like their responsibility is like painting that one rock or something or that group of rocks over there and someone else is supposed to touch up actors, makeups and things, and everyone's super important because those are the things that get made fun of, right when those movies come out. And working in music, like I like to just call myself a songwriter and I like being a part of a bigger thing myself a songwriter and I like being a part of a bigger thing.
Rod Kim:I feel like in places where there's not as big of an arts community, you have to be like songwriter, producer, artist, you know, I don't know coffee boy, whatever, and I I feel like a lot of times songwriters get lumped into like I'm songwriter, producer, artist. I'm like no, I'm pretty much just a songwriter. Like I don't sing like I used to and I'm not great at producing. I have friends that are better, faster, you know, and just more efficient with it. Um, I have done it, you know, because we all you know we had to do what we do to survive.
Rod Kim:But, um, I like that, like I can come in and like write for, uh, music and lyrics if they need them for a project, and then a producer is actually going to like take it and make it its final product and mastering engineer is going to master it and artist is going to perform it, and then if there's like a visual component like I worked on an animated, a few animated things, so like thank god I don't have to animate stuff, you know, so those teams all work together.
Jennifer Logue:It's been cool like learning how those teams work it's wonderful being part of a team where everyone brings their best. Oh, the right team. No, that's important.
Rod Kim:The right team, yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Logue:Yeah, that's a whole other conversation.
Rod Kim:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:But okay, back to songwriting. What first got you into songwriting?
Rod Kim:You know, I don't think many people like wake up and say, oh, I want to be a songwriter, yeah, oh, I want to be a songwriter, yeah, yeah, I think in music in general kind of where it started, because I remember being a teenager and I got my first Sony Discman for Christmas and at that time it was like a fairly large investment for my parents, so very grateful for that for Christmas. And then my very first CD I bought was the CD single for Joan Osborne's, one of Us.
Jennifer Logue:Yeah, great song.
Rod Kim:I love that song and I think it was that and St Teresa were on the St Teresa was the B side. So I listened to those two songs like until I could afford the next CD, which I think was Green Jelly.
Rod Kim:Which is wild to think about, but I remember looking at the liner notes and I guess up to that point, so I was probably what? 12 or 13 by the time I got that. Before then I just assumed like, um, I don't know Celine Dion singing that song. She made it, you know, you're a kid. You don't know, so I'm. I'm sitting there reading the liner notes for the hundredth time, you know because, that's what you do, that's all you.
Rod Kim:That's all. You only had to look at, and I'm like joan osborne is not credited at writing this song at all, it was eric bazillion, who's another philly guy from hooters, um, and I was like who's eric bazillion? And I like looked him up, I was like, oh he's, he's in a band too and he wrote some stuff. And then, as I started getting more cds, I started recognizing names over and over again, like, uh, I think I, you know big Shania Twain fan because I grew up in central Indiana.
Jennifer Logue:Oh my gosh, I saw for a lot of her albums she called.
Rod Kim:She wrote too, but she collaborated with her then husband Mutt Lang so. I started looking for Mutt Lang projects I was like, oh, he did Back in Black and uh, uh, 18 Till I Die by Bryan Adams and stuff like in the cores, uh. And then Diane Warren think was really my pivotal point, because there was these massive 90s ballads oh, I remember she was my inspiration as a songwriter.
Jennifer Logue:I wanted to be a songwriter as a kid. And it was Diane Warren man. She wrote everything.
Rod Kim:I think she's the start of a lot of careers, you know. And so I saw like, wow, this woman wrote how I think she's the start of a lot of careers, you know. And so I saw like, wow, this woman wrote how Do I Live and Don't Want to Miss a Thing. You know everything. She even wrote some Christian songs, which is wild.
Jennifer Logue:Oh, I didn't know that Was it.
Rod Kim:It was one or two of Michael W Smith songs, you know, like just beautiful ballads, and so I remember. Just I would look out on uh liner notes for diane warren songs, and this is before. You could look it up on the internet, you know yeah and, uh, it's like I want to do that.
Rod Kim:And eventually, when I went to college for music, um, I originally uh, went in as a composition focus. Uh, to be completely candid, I flunked out of that program because that's like classical composition stuff and you know that's a science. Um, I was not able to keep up with. I'm not too ashamed now to say that, um, but I always kept that. Like songwriting bug like I, I love the idea of writing something and seeing, like an actual artist, artist, like performing I sang a lot of my own stuff.
Rod Kim:That's fine. But then after college I toured a bunch of my own. I tried to make a name for myself and everything, and that was fun. I just didn't know any other way to do it, because no one's interested in Rod Kim songs, because what have I done? So I figured I'm just going to do it myself and see what happens. And then I don't know if you he's still out in the philly area. Richie rubini um no, he found me. Um, he's a great producer. His daughter olivia um, you should have her on sometime. She was just on the voice, oh cool she's doing great things now.
Rod Kim:Um, but he was, he produced me at the time and I remember telling him like, oh yeah, I want to demo these songs or record them, or, if not, demo, record them to try to pitch them to people and stuff. And he was like rod, these are artists, songs like these, these are like you, songs like this doesn't apply to anybody else. I was like okay, good, well, let's put these out and see what happens. Um, then I did the band thing for a little while because I'd noticed a lot of my friends that got publishing deals the kinds that I wanted were trying to be artists and then when that didn't pan out, they settled quote unquote for the publishing deals.
Jennifer Logue:I was like okay, settling for a publishing deal.
Rod Kim:Right, what if I just like go for the artist thing, yeah, and then I'll fall into the thing I actually want to do. You know, I'm not one of those guys that was like I hated being a performer artist, I just could tell it wasn't my strongest suit Like it took a lot of work and a lot of rehearsal and it was a little bit less joy than some of the performers that actually like.
Rod Kim:I just interviewed Edwin McCain. That dude is, you know, a decade older than me and he's still touring. Like five years ago I felt the touring bug leave my body, you know. So, like there, there's something about the people who are just built to give and perform yeah, yeah and I, I just kept thinking back to like diane warrens in like her basement with a piano, writing hit songs and just sending him to aerosmith to go tour with. You know, like I want to do that.
Rod Kim:Granted, that's probably way over romanticizing what she actually does because I've like literally run into her in Hollywood near her office, like not even spoken, like I actually just like bumped into her, like trying to cross the street or something. So I know she has an operation there, you know, and I've talked to. Well, by the time this comes out, you'll probably see I have an interview with Edwin McCain out and he talks about how Diane so much more than just a songwriter like he's like when you cut a Diane Warren song you get Diane. And he was like what I mean by that is like you cut her song and then she'll call every radio station and cuss them out for not playing it enough and I was like, Okay, I had no idea that was a part.
Rod Kim:I'm not extroverted enough to do that.
Jennifer Logue:I didn't realize that part the hustle. She is hilarious Old school hustle.
Rod Kim:Yeah, she's awesome, so talented. But yeah, I think the short of the long they said is a lot of different songwriters, but at the end of the day, I think Diane Warren was like the spark on the fuse.
Jennifer Logue:You know that really like set things off. Yeah, the spark on the fuse. You know that really like set things off. Yeah, for me it was diane warren. It was also because I'm a singer mariah, mariah, yeah because I would look at all of her liner notes and I'm like, oh my gosh, she co-writes all these songs, like she was the only singer at the time to do that and just made me feel so empowered to see like wow, I can take my experiences and I can sing my own songs she's very similar to michael jackson where, like they're not known for playing instruments
Rod Kim:but they're like vocal prodigies, so like there's story I haven't been in the room to see this for myself, but there's stories of like both michael and mariah like singing parts out, you know, of like how they want things to go and that's like how they write and produce, and I was like, wow, that's a whole talent itself. Like I don't have that kind of I need to like sit and like play it, you know, to hear it.
Jennifer Logue:For me it just the song, just comes to me vocally, Like I'll wake up in the middle of the night with just like a chorus in my head and I'll put on my and then I'll put on my and then I'll go to the piano and figure out what chords they are yeah, yeah or what would work. But like it's always, melody first, oh, melody, and lyrics first.
Rod Kim:I mean that's great though, because that's the, that's the core of, you know, a great pop song, right like you have to have a good song, and to me that's like melody, and if there is lyrics, you know, and then everything else can just dress it up, as long as it's not distracting from the bones of the song.
Jennifer Logue:You're giving me hope, Rod you really are. Because this is a relatively new endeavor. I've been writing. You know I'm aiming for a song a week. Right now it's hard, though, because you have your own blocks that come up.
Rod Kim:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:Like, oh, I'm too old to be doing this now. Like it's too late, jen, give it up, it's too late and I coach other people. But like I'm being real, I have to coach myself too, like to.
Rod Kim:But it's um, yeah, anyway, not to make this about me, but no, totally I mean, I I think, like I don't want to be like overly, like forcefully positive or anything, but I think we we've experienced enough collectively as a society in the last few years to know that like, well, literally anything's possible. That goes both ways, you know, like that's true. Um, so, like I don't know, even before I moved out here, I remember, uh, a gal that used to play delaware, um, dewey beach music conference and stuff a bit, was rachel platten, you know, and then, yes, she had a massive hit with fight song and stuff yeah, I was in a um songwriting class with her oh nice at bmi, that's awesome she's have you met her.
Rod Kim:She's so kind, oh my gosh, we played opposite stages because remember dewey beach when the stages would just flip from one side of the rusty rudder to the other oh yeah so I played the opposite stage and then when my set ended, like hers would start, her and craig would be playing.
Rod Kim:And uh we? It just so happened, time out, that the first jan the january when her album release had fight song on it happened she was doing like a meet and greet in los angeles like two months after I'd moved here I remember like going to that meet and greet.
Rod Kim:it was like me and a bunch of like teenage girls and like I remember getting to the front of the line and Rachel was like shut the up but then her, her, like entourage, you know, I think I think it was like a radio Disney event.
Rod Kim:They were like whoever this guy is get them out of here, he's making he's making her curse in front of all these children. But we got to talk a little bit later at the grammy museum and uh, she, she said like you know if you ever go back to or I asked her if I go back to dewey beach to play music, the music conference. They're like what to tell everybody? She was like tell them that there's no expiration date and one song can change your life. Because I bring her story up because we were talking about like being too old or whatever. She was in like her mid 30s when fight song hit and like that's not old. But as far as a pop star, you know, especially for a female pop star, that used to be like a really young game, like teenage young game you know.
Rod Kim:And so for her, and why can't I remember the? There's a gal that is a country artist that one of my friends produced. I should know his name, oh Cam, right around the same time had kind of like blown up and she was very similar age and I was like, well, this is really cool Because you know a song like Fight Song, it's a great pop song, but also like I feel like it means something more coming from like someone in their mid 30s than you know, not that teenagers don't have tough experiences, but they're different.
Rod Kim:You know, so it's different for someone who had their very first album as a 16 year old saying like I'm going to fight for this. We're like, ok, sure that's great. To someone who'd been gigging for a decade or more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, trying to make it happen.
Jennifer Logue:Oh, that is one of my favorite songs. It's so, you know, and that whole journey she was on was so worth it. Yeah, yeah, if only for that one song, because it's impacted so many people too. Yeah, like people with different kinds of fights, they're fighting.
Rod Kim:Yeah, I remember talking toig after they ushered me away from her on that meet and greet uh, her long-time drummer and they were. He was telling me like how a lot of times when they get you know those like kind of like when you start with like a hit song, uh, that got you your record contract, you kind of have to play the game until you get to do the message you want to make you know like you have to do, like message you want to make you know like you have to do like just you know, like dance, music or whatever like you know really broad topics. He's like that team was lucky enough to do something with substance to begin with.
Rod Kim:You know there wasn't like a compromise. At the beginning of their message it was like no, like this is her genuine truth was like. You know every word of that song. You understand it, yeah.
Jennifer Logue:It's been two years and you know people at home are worried about me. Yeah, every word of that song. I think any musician can identify with like yeah, and just anyone going through any kind of struggle, like a health struggle, you know, like um, anyway, music can change the world. It really can.
Rod Kim:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:So it's a good reminder for all of us, totally so what was it like getting established in LA as a songwriter?
Rod Kim:It's still happening. I want to be like really transparent about this, because this is my pet peeve. Whenever I meet like successful creators and stuff, I always ask this question is what was the middle like? Because I feel like everyone leaves that out.
Rod Kim:Um, because I remember coming to la and then like, or even before la, I mean, you've been to enough music conferences that you'll see someone who's like won grammys and stuff. And they'll always tell, like the beginning, like ah, I was a teenager and then I left home and I was homeless and I got evicted, blah, blah, and then I won a grammy. I was like, okay, that's cool, uh, but the most valuable part for us is what happened in between, because all of us, I think, are we made the leap from the first thing right that's why we're in some place like la, or even if we're not.
Rod Kim:If you're not in la, if you had either taken less hours at your day job or quit your day job to do music or whatever, like that was the leap.
Rod Kim:But you're also not, like nominated for a grammy exactly we're all in between what happens, and I haven't quite pinned down why people are embarrassed to talk about that. Either it's like there's some unsavory stuff happening there, or just embarrassed about what you had to do. Um, so my middle right now is like just doing like I think neil gaiman said it in his uh commencement speech actually the philadelphia, yeah, um, he, uh. He said, like you know, you kind of see, your main goal is kind of corny, but everything is corny. So, like you see, your main goal is like a mountain and like every decision you make is like is that going to take me closer or farther away?
Rod Kim:and the same thing on a different day could change that definition, and so I that's kind of how I'm living now is like, even like this tick tock stuff. It's not where I saw myself, you know, a decade ago or even three years ago, you know, um, because at the time especially, I saw it as like this dancing app, you know, and I helped other musically and tiktok influencer friends do their dances on tiktok and things. I just it was never a space for me and then one night I got high and started talking about night 90s music and it popped off. But I feel fortunate because it's it's something I do anyway.
Rod Kim:The only thing that's different now is I hit record first and you know, if anybody's ever seen in one of my tick tocks, know that, like that's pretty much it. That's just me laying on this couch behind me, uh, with my cat lucy that you can't see because she's black and uh, I just kind of talk and the most that's kind of happening with it is like later on, when I'm kind of like in a little more clearer mind, I kind of like edit it down a little bit so it's a little less rambly, um, but I talk like that anyway to people. In fact, my whole life people told me to stop talking as much about music I liked, uh, because no one cared, turns out 9.1 million care?
Jennifer Logue:Yeah, exactly no people do, it's just you hadn't found your audience.
Rod Kim:Yeah, yeah and so, yeah, I'm still doing that now, but also being open to those things. So I say that thing about TikTok because, like well, this still feels natural. I don't see like how this fits in the puzzle, but it doesn't feel wrong. So I just like I just kept doing it for a while, especially during the historic Hollywood strikes last year. It at one point was making enough money to replace my income that I had lost from the strikes.
Rod Kim:I'm not part of SAG or WGA, but you know, when stuff isn't being made in la, that trickles down to everybody music, caterers, everything. So, um, that was covering that. But then, like I so something about entering my 40s made me like really not care about anything really and I've said that. I feel like people said that and I've said that in my younger years this is the first decade I really mean it I like, like, or I really know what that feels like, because I feel like in my 20s I really cared what people thought. In my 30s I said I didn't care.
Jennifer Logue:But you did kind of side a little bit.
Rod Kim:You know, in my 40s, like I don't know, like if you see me out at the mall getting groceries, like I look like an elderly asian woman, you know, like my hair is up and up on, I'm in like sweats, I'm not carrying cat food and you know, um, and so that that goes with this. So, like that day, I decided to start talking about the stuff on tiktok. I was like, okay, I don't really care, because before people would tell me like no, you're wrong, like you interpreted that song wrong, or you interpreted what they were trying to do with that chord progression wrong, or that harmony selection wrong, and that's why I shouldn't talk about it, I stopped caring. So I just say it now on tiktok, and now, by proxy, the other social medias, these either the artists and or the, the writers of these songs, have just straight up either dm'd me, duetted my videos, commented saying that I'm right yeah I.
Rod Kim:I love it that there there's been a couple times where even people in the comments who don't know me will just say like no, that's clearly not what they meant.
Rod Kim:And then the artists will come in like no, he's right, that's what I meant I was like okay so here I mean I'm not 100, obviously, but like I'm a lot more right than I thought I was, and that it's a really long way of saying like somehow that reputation about me talking about songwriting on TikTok has helped me establish a reputation as a songwriter, because now there's these established songwriters, like really established songwriters are like no, he got it, like people hadn't. I mean, I guess, to tease my my own podcast, like I'm doing in, I have a uh episode with edmund mccain that I think, by the time this is out, will already be out. Um, the big centerpiece of that interview is that on my tiktok I had made a speculation about one of his biggest song. I'll be, you know it's as a kid I remember being like that's a wedding song.
Rod Kim:Right, it's perfect. He wrote that as a wedding vows or whatever. And then I listened to it in my 40s and I was like I don't have any actual evidence for this other than vibes. But and also just being a guy that's lived four decades and made these mistakes, this song sounds like not a wedding song but a song of a desperate man who really messed up and is trying to make it up to his partner. And I was right he dm'd me. He was like yeah, he's like I. I wrote it about a woman who I knew would leave me and she did. And then in his interview he goes on for a lot. It goes so much deeper. This song was not born from a beautiful romance. It was so many things in his life were like going wrong and he said that the song ended up being like a prayer for himself, like I don't know I, I I'm not just trying to abbreviate it to tease the podcast.
Rod Kim:It is a little bit, but I, I just wouldn't be doing it justice to try to summarize it here, where you want to hear it from him yeah, and also he also says so much more insight about it, like.
Rod Kim:And then, once you hear him talk about it and then you go back and listen to the song, you're like, yeah, okay, so this does fit as superficially like you can sing at a wedding, there's still nothing wrong with that. But now when you hear, like what he went through when that song was being written, you're like wow, like that's so much, you know so much more, you know so much more.
Rod Kim:So things like that have really helped me inadvertently become a little bit more established. You know, I still don't feel like I'm established. I think I'm far from that. I'm right in the middle. But I'm happy with the journey. But I guess just that, going with my gut feeling of like well, this isn't what I planned on, but it doesn't feel wrong, so let's just see where it goes, you know.
Jennifer Logue:But it doesn't feel wrong. Yeah, like I've, I'm, but it doesn't feel wrong. So let's just see where it goes. You know, but it doesn't feel wrong. Yeah, like I, I've. I'm not sure if you've ever felt this like I have a major guilt complex not to be tmi, but whenever I deviate from my path, like with music, I deviated from the path to do entertainment, journalism, because I needed to make money, I was in new york like I music wasn't making me money and I had an opportunity to interview all these celebrities on the red carpet like Stevie Nicks and Tom Jones, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this, and then it ended up turning into a different career for me.
Jennifer Logue:I still made music on the side, but my attention was slightly All my attention wasn't on music. Now though, if that makes any sense, it was like kind of divided, and sometimes I grapple with like is that part of the process, the journey? Do we embrace those opportunities? Because I always look back, sometimes like what would have happened if I just never lost my focus for music. People have different perspectives on it, like I think.
Jennifer Logue:Some see it as and I see this as like one thing outlet feeds into another yeah like studying acting made me a better songwriter yeah, definitely like my, you know, but anyway, what are your thoughts on that? Do you ever feel like conflict between tiktok and podcasting and writing songs and all of that?
Rod Kim:so right now the the only thing that really feels like kind of a bit of like um labor and it is labor of love is the podcast part. Just because I'm new at it, like this Edwin McCain episode is gonna be the second, so like I'm still very much like cutting my teeth on it and but everyone's made me feel really comfortable with it, even the all American rejects.
Rod Kim:If you watch that interview, I'm on script for about 20 seconds and then I just break and I'm like I don't know what I'm doing, like I'm not an interviewer and stuff. And then they just jumped right in there with me like good, because we're not, really, like we don't, we want to make music too, you know. So we're just in here doing the interview. So we just kind of like bonded over that. But I made a little on my, my 42nd birthday a couple weeks ago.
Rod Kim:I made a little kind of like video post on my Instagram. You can go look at it. It's called I have no idea what I'm doing and I think where I'm fortunate is that I'm I say this lovingly to myself dumb enough that I never really had the opportunity to veer too far off. I'm just terrible at everything except a lot of things. And so you know, ask anybody has ever employed me for a non music gig. They probably won't have great words about me, and it's not for lack of trying, like I've tried to do several things um, non-music related to the day, jobs and stuff, because once you know, we need to pay bills and stuff you need to pay bills and it's just gone terribly.
Rod Kim:I've gotten fired or let go or like really you know, pushed to leave, um, and I remember the last day job I had, you know, was in delaware and I remember like putting in my I don't even know those two weeks. I think I put in my two weeks. Now you can just go now and walking down to, uh, the bar at the queen theater that was at that time world cafe, and my friend megan, if you're listening to this, she was bartending that day and she was like, well, it's open during lunch, but it's odd to see someone at like noon come in for a drink, and so she was like everything okay right, I'm like, um, I just quit my job to just go do music full-time, because it doesn't.
Rod Kim:I don't see myself doing that doing the other thing. I see myself doing music, but it doesn't make sense because I literally don't know how I'm going to pay next month's rent now.
Jennifer Logue:Yeah yeah, no that that sounds familiar, yeah and so there's just like uh.
Rod Kim:But then the other part of it is I think I was talking to my brother about this. You know, we're me and my brother are the first uh of our family to be born in the States we have this immigrant kid hustle. We don't have options. We've just always survived. I think that's part of it. I can't tell you exactly. I'd have to look back and actually see what happened and how I'm still here right now. It's just always worked and I haven't really had to compromise a ton, I don't think. But at the same time I'm not like rolling in it, like you know, like I think the biggest dirty little secret about la is everyone's broke except rihanna and I don't even care anymore, you know yeah like we're all just like the next gig from not making it you know, or making it or whatever you know, and um, not making it, you know, or making it or whatever you know, and um.
Rod Kim:So yeah, I the tiktok stuff really hasn't taken my focus off of things too much, if anything. It's kind of helped me focus stuff. That's why I didn't feel wrong, because at the end of the day, like I think that takes me five minutes before I go to bed you know, because the video is like two minutes and and it's just me doing what I normally do and every suggestion from every expert ever has been like well, you should get better lighting and better microphones and and stuff.
Rod Kim:And I'm like listen, man, I tried that for 10 years. I've been on youtube for 10 years more now and that was okay. I mean, I have like 25 000 subscribers or whatever on there, but it didn't. I have friends that have like 10 million, you know. So that just wasn't it for me. This thing me laying in bed in the dark using my camera phone, the front camera of all things is the only thing has had. I have almost a quarter of a million followers now on tiktok from that, you know. So I was like I don't know, but this seems to be working and it's not for lack of equipment, because I have video and you know equipment, especially sound equipment. The microphone is not the issue. I have many expensive microphones. This is just what, and you're also just getting me and not like a highly researched script, and you know there's people that do that, my friend Patrick Hicks, if you kind of like what I do. But you wished I researched stuff. Look at Patrick, he needs to have his own NPR show or something.
Jennifer Logue:Oh cool.
Rod Kim:He's a thorough music historian.
Jennifer Logue:He's a great storyteller oh, that's cool.
Rod Kim:And that's him. That's not me, though. I'm not a good scholar, so I'm just going off of memories I had from high school and college, you know.
Jennifer Logue:Yeah, but that's relatable.
Rod Kim:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:You know, and I think we all want people we can relate to. That comes into, that factors into whether or not I follow someone. It's like oh, I totally can relate where they're coming from, like you see yourself in other people sometimes.
Rod Kim:I remember songs I loved from high school all the time, multiple times a day. So to just do that and talk out loud and hit record is like a very minimal extra effort to do it. So I I've been lucky in that sense. I guess that's. The long answer again to this is like I feel the distraction has been kind of minimal.
Rod Kim:The only other things are like when I help friends on like film set stuff, but that's less of like and they do pay me, so that's nice, that's extra income and stuff. But that's never been that I can remember at least. Like where I've, like, made the most of my financial income and stuff, because it's just like oh, my friend's making a movie and they need someone to carry a light from here to there, yeah, I'll show up for a few hours and help and they're great, you know, and I'm sure they would do the same for me if I needed something. Um and otherwise is it's just been like really figuring out the gig, like how to, how to get it, and I've I don't even know if this is correct or the best way. Something stuck with me ever since I was a little kid.
Rod Kim:I remember being like seven or eight years old standing in the grocery store line with my dad, and I don't even know if my dad told me this or I just made it up in my head, but I remember just being in the long grocery line and made it up in my head, but I remember just being in the long grocery line and then, when the other registers opened up, people you know would like sprint yeah the other registers and, for whatever reason, me and my dad would just, we just stood at the one we were at and then, before I could blink, we were next, because everyone else left and then I think I just stuck with the rest of my life, my process, because then when I moved to la, I remember my friends that had like succeeded, like they retired in their mid 20s, you know, or something I just said the secret here is to just stay, just hang, because everyone will leave and this work is still here.
Rod Kim:I did not know that a global pandemic would do a lot of that work for me, so I stayed, and no hate to anyone that had to take off and take care of what they need to take care of. Um, I stayed both out of necessity because where am I going to go, and also I love it here and when all the songwriters left town that were, you know, were 10 times more experienced than me. Uh, they left town. I kind of swooped in and filled the gaps and I remember one of my friends who was a business person in that world, uh said, like you know, right, but the thing is like the catch is the budgets are like slashed to like 10 percent of what they were. I was like, well, good, because, well, that's fine, because obviously I don't have the decades of experience these other guys do, but at the same time like 10 percent of their budget is still like a livable wage for me yeah you know um.
Rod Kim:So that's what I did and I just kind of kept hustling and answering phone calls. And my friend mari has the slogan that I also live by show up and don't be an yeah so great advice unless I have an actual excuse, you know, like a health related thing or something.
Rod Kim:Like I can't just be, like I'm tired, um, I'll just go, I'll go tired and then try my best to not be an asshole. Yeah, yeah, and it's just been that on repeat for the last few years, and now I'm here, so I'm hoping to keep that up as long as possible.
Jennifer Logue:That's awesome. Now you're the right person to ask about this. How has the role of a songwriter changed in this digital age that we're in? There's so much content out all the time. We're streaming songs on spotify, like. How do you see the role of a songwriter evolving from, like, the time when we were kids?
Rod Kim:I mean, obviously, the social media thing is like a weird little wild card. Um. So for me it's like songwriting is like two buckets, and right now I'm in the the latter that I'm going to explain, but the first one I think most people think of is like oh, diane warren.
Rod Kim:She writes for leanne rhymes and aerosmith I I, I want to retire, like that right now. I have to be. If I have to be honest to everybody, like that's like five percent of my work, like I'm not a renowned pop songwriter, I'm, I'm trying to work, you know, on that and work. I worked with a lot of um tiktokers who became singers, kind of anonymously.
Rod Kim:Um uh, you know, I sold my rights to them and stuff that has become what? What has changed there from when we were kids was that the new music we listened to as kids is now the retro music.
Jennifer Logue:I'm producing, I'm writing for these oh, that's so funny, that's so funny.
Rod Kim:And so what I was for the middle years of my life, what I was doing was so outdated, is now current again, or like are you kidding really? So good. I remember, like in my you know mid-20, like you know even 30s and stuff, people say like Rod, that's like so 99 or 2002. And now it's like Rod, that's so 99 and so 2002. You know.
Jennifer Logue:Because the thing is I haven't changed the way I write songs, Like I'm still old school because I grew up on, you know, the Mariahs and the Dianes and I would get that with my first EP Like, oh, it sounds kind of a little dated. The way songs are a little bit different. Now it's retro now. I never thought of it that way. Yeah, man.
Rod Kim:Pop punk has had a huge resurgence. All American Rejection did their comeback. That's why I got to do the podcast with them Dope. Then the other bucket is the 95% of my time is.
Rod Kim:There's like the commercial music stuff, right, ads and TV pilots and YouTube shows and corporate stuff, and that's primarily I spend a lot of my time in right now, specifically the last year and a half, because from mid 2020 to I guess like 2022, I was doing a lot of artist stuff. You know um, work for hire, um, and you know just kind of working anonymously and stuff, um, but having fun and getting paid and uh. And then there was I want to say that my new year's resolution for 2023 was like this year I'm gonna make money and so I uh went and like wrote for as many like ad projects as I could and uh, library you know music libraries and stuff. And and then last fall I actually right about this time, I got a call from like a huge ad agency and they had the biggest order of music I'd ever had in my entire life.
Jennifer Logue:Wow.
Rod Kim:And I just said yes because there was no other option, you know.
Jennifer Logue:Yeah.
Rod Kim:And so this company. I had done 30 songs for them for various ads in the past through three separate contracts, so 10 at a time. This is the last one In the same amount of time. I had to do 120 whoa, so that equaled.
Rod Kim:That equaled out to I had about two and a half months to do it.
Rod Kim:That equaled out to me having to do four, I think four or five. I might somebody's going to do the math and see them wrong, but I remember at the time it was, I had to do like four or five completed songs a day, seven days a week for a while, and I think I just gave myself a break during Christmas, um, but like, I just like, learned through the process and I'm still not I don't even want to sound like I'm a professional that work. I'm still learning now, like the how that all works, um, but for me at least, I think that's changed in the sense of like, because of digital and all these different media types and stuff, there's like these weird opportunities for me to write music for commercials that I don't know if all of them went on TV Most of them probably just went on YouTube ads and Facebook reels and you know, like, and even if they did tell me what it was for, there were so many of them that I forgot in a week.
Rod Kim:You know, like, they tell me like, sure, sure, that's great, I got to move on to the next thing.
Jennifer Logue:Now, are these all like songs with someone singing? Are you producing? Are some of these songs like compositions when it's like more background?
Rod Kim:Most of them are not with lyrics.
Jennifer Logue:Okay.
Rod Kim:Unless there was a specific ask for it. It it's a mix between background to like very foreground, because you know you see commercials sometimes and it's just music uh you know or and so stuff like that, or like they want stuff with music. And then the middle 10 seconds, the. The volume is not supposed to get lower, but the energy is supposed to get lower, so there can be a voiceover for this part, or something there was some corporate work I did that.
Rod Kim:It was like all percussion because it's just like these um pitch decks where like stuff is flying in off screen, so it'd be like you know, polyrhythmic stuff happening here and everything. And it was like for me it was wild because percussion was my weakest subject in school. So I was like, well, you're gonna have to brush that up now and thank god for digital.
Rod Kim:You know, I can highly edit this, yeah awesome, um, so you're forced to learn when you get a project you know and I've been doing music for, because I've been in the youtube world so long for various forensic youtube shows and stuff and like that whole market just didn't exist when we were kids, you know like youtube shows oh my gosh, and they have full budgets, you know, and so it's, it's been great, or even the, even the five percent.
Rod Kim:I mentioned the artist stuff I was doing with those tick tockers. Yeah, I wouldn't have been able to write music for tick tock stars because they couldn't become tick tock stars before you know, a decade ago. And I'm not gonna lie and say like all of them are going to become classics or even are remembered now. But like, yeah, that's, it's cool to at least be creative for that time for them and me be part of that. You know, like kind of relive some of my youth a little bit, be excited about pop, punk, like the first time again you know, yeah, it's cool.
Jennifer Logue:I mean you're showing that there's so many opportunities for songwriters now, but they're not the traditional opportunities that we think of yeah, I think, yeah, that kind of happened by accident, or maybe it's natural, but I just wasn't aware of it.
Rod Kim:So it's less accident, it's just I didn't know what was going on. I was just trying to figure it out, but, um, yeah, I. Something that is conscious of me, though, is, uh, I tend to hang out a lot of spaces where it's not just musicians. Yeah because, like it's what is this saying? Like look not for a needle in a haystack, but with other needles you know so like or no.
Rod Kim:That's you know. I just completely defeated my own point. That's. That's the opposite of what I was trying to say. I just completely defeated my own point. That's the opposite of what I was trying to say. My point there. This is why I don't public speak. My main point there was like other musicians not that they don't need other musicians, but like I'm not trying to sell a record or I don't know how to put this, because I do do that, like we do with other musicians um, like a showrunner for a new show, if they already are a musician or are know them, they're not looking. So okay, that's a better way to put. I'm thinking about it out loud. I'm going where people are looking for musicians or songwriters and, um, that's how I get called a lot of times is like we meet up or a lot of it's word of mouth. I worked on one project and was not an asshole.
Rod Kim:So someone told me you know but I just don't as much anymore. I don't subscribe as much to. Let's go to this meeting that I had to pay pay 50 to go to to meet another musician with my exact same skill set, you know, and it's nice to meet friends like that, oh yeah, for sure but business wise, it was like I don't know a whole lot about business, but I was like I probably shouldn't go where there's, like you know, not a need exactly go where the need.
Jennifer Logue:Is that no?
Rod Kim:it makes complete sense.
Rod Kim:Complete sense I mean, I remember like one of my biggest gigs now is not biggest anymore, but at the time it was the biggest was because I was at lunch with a bunch of tech guys and they needed something. Like that day and I happen to be at lunch and like, oh, rod's a writer it's like, could you do this? I was like I'm about to find out, so let's go for it. You know, and that's something you just can't plan for. I remember specifically standing at the corner and either going back to my hotel room to take a nap or turning the other direction and going to lunch with these guys.
Jennifer Logue:Wow.
Rod Kim:That's the trajectory of my last few years, you know.
Jennifer Logue:Wow. So this is creative space and I love asking this question of everyone. But what is your definition of creativity?
Rod Kim:Oh man, for me it's like I don't know if this too cheesy. I told this to other. The almost anybody I had to work with in long term is like, when you don't have any other choice, you know, it's just who you are Like. I've heard this, I forget who even told me this before. But they said you know, you don't get in the mood to be creative, you just are, and that should bleed through in everything. So even if you are forced to do a day job or something, there's something where you can vent that part of you out. You know.
Rod Kim:So like, obviously we have a lot of friends of music that work at coffee shops and stuff, and our artists and work at coffee shops and stuff, and so they'll like their little event, their little outlet is to like do the board, where they can draw a little bit or something you know or I don't know how that comes out in other spaces. So for me it's like I can't do anything else and so even even on social media, I'm not really a video editor or a filmmaker or anything. Granted, I've absorbed a lot of various skill sets from just being here. But on my birthday I remember laying in bed thinking, oh, I'm 42. This is an interesting space to be in and I just kind of had some images in my head and, even though I'm not necessarily a visual artist, I was like I want to make this thing, yeah. So I got on adobe premiere and I pulled some clips together.
Rod Kim:I pulled some music that I hadn't used for other things and then I, I uh did a little voiceover thing for it. I was like I have no idea what I'm doing, you know, and uh, so that little thing like it, even though I'm not a filmmaker, like I wanted to make that little thing, or even a video maker, necessarily, I want to make that little thing as a one-off. You know, that's not a weekly post, yeah. So to me, being creative is just like there's I don't know what it is, is, it's some part of you that, um, something outside is attracting out of you or that you need to get out. It's just. It's not even just a state of being. I think it's just like if you, if you are, you know it is just who you are, you know, like it's you.
Jennifer Logue:I think we're all creative. I think we all have this muscle of creativity right, and I think some of us use it more than others.
Rod Kim:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:You know, and even everyday people who may not work in creative jobs. I think they need to find ways still to be creative in their lives, to be happy, to find that fulfillment, Because some of the happiest people I know have the most boring day jobs.
Rod Kim:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:But they're creative, like they're amazing chefs, you know, or they love decorating their house, or they plan the most epic trips when they go on vacation, like things like that. Like that's how they exercise their creativity, like outside of work. But it's I like what you said, it's the essence of who you are Like. Your medium is like you.
Rod Kim:There's something about it. It's like trying to contain fog or something you know like don't know, I don't know how to do it. That sounds really pretentious, it's just. But it's just like, really true, like I um, yeah, I don't know. And like you said, creativity is not limited to like arts. I mean, it's a heavy thing. There. I have friends that are accountants that love it, which is great.
Rod Kim:We need more people like that yes, um and I even told my friend that you know, that is a uh, I think. I think he's an accountant I don't know like what the levels are, but he just gets really excited talking about numbers and I'm like if I ever make enough money, I need someone to manage it. You are the guy, because I trust you and you love it you love it, you're passionate about it.
Jennifer Logue:Yes, for sure you have to be creative. To be I mean, I'm not sure about being in a well, no accounts could be creative. There's probably something in there.
Rod Kim:I don't understand, you know.
Rod Kim:So I'm just I don't understand it either, so I can't you know, but I feel like there's an art to everything yeah if you're passionate about it yeah, it's true, even yeah, I watch some of my social media friends who are, um for lack of better words they're like, they're when you think of, when you think of like influencer or social media creator. Because you can't pin down, like what they do. I feel like even a decade ago, you could say like, oh, they're a music creator or they're a food creator. There's a bunch of friends I have. Now it's like ah, they do tiktok. I don't know our short form, I don't know how else to explain it.
Rod Kim:They do whatever it takes to make money there and they just know that like they'll go, they'll do a bunch of and it's you know, when you see it, you know, like when you're scrolling through short form videos and stuff, like who comes up with this stuff? Some of my friends like wow, but but that's their creativity is like actually one of them is actually he has a master's in some music stuff, so he's even a higher level musician than me, but he doesn't use any music stuff in his country um, so there's like, yeah, that little I don't see him doing.
Jennifer Logue:I can't picture him not doing the social media thing because he's just so like in it, you know so I think this is the second interview where I brought up my neurologist, because people who listen to the podcast know that I have epilepsy but I've been seizure free since I've gone on medicine, so grateful for that. But my neurologist, he's like one of the top epileptologists in the country and he has all these patents and everything and he's also like like a really high-level upright bass player.
Jennifer Logue:He performs like in orchestras and he had the choice between going to medical school or going for music, and he ended up going to medical school because he wanted to make an impact. You know it because he's really smart, yeah, and like he still has a passion for music.
Rod Kim:But it's interesting how, uh, how creative people are I mean, that is something else like this and there's no shame in doing something else. In fact, I remember the head of the music department my very first freshman orientation at college saying like if you can see yourself doing anything other than music, do that, because there's probably more of a need for it and it'll be less heartache for you it'll be easier.
Rod Kim:Like we, the music program I was in I was a contemporary music program people literally left that program to do literal rocket science. Because, like music's tough, you know. Like, yeah, not only like, uh, music theory sometimes a little bit of a hurdle for people, but also like the practicing you can't cram for a final in piano, you just have to have kept up with it for a year. Um, but also like, yeah, it emotionally just takes a lot from you because there's a lot of devalue with a devaluation of it. Um, so, yeah, like no, no, like I wish I could be a doctor.
Rod Kim:Like my mom, you know my Asian parents he's like you should be a doctor, they want me to be a doctor or a lawyer. And then, like my mom, you know, had to come to grips with that on happening early on, when she, you know, she knew my whole life that I'm a really bad liar. So like law probably was not going to be in the cards. And then you know, I think one of the first times she took me out to get like my blood drawn for something as a kid and I like vomited or passed out she's like oh, I guess that's not gonna be in the cards either, you know so oh my gosh.
Jennifer Logue:But you're doing so many cool things and you know, life is about experience. You're getting to experience all these cool. You're getting to use your talents in different ways and touch people like that's so much. Everyone has their own path.
Rod Kim:Yeah, we all have, you know and I appreciate that, you know, because I I don't see myself in any other way. At the same time, like I've I've said this on social media before, just in posts between friends and stuff I, I want you to be good, anybody else, I want everyone else to be good, because then I'm good.
Rod Kim:So it's a little bit selfish too because, then, like I know, on the micro level that means I'm not worried about everyone you know close to me, but then also like on the close to me, but then also like on the the worldwide level I'm I'm not as concerned about like people kind of like popping off because something didn't work.
Rod Kim:You know, like I'm not going to name any national tragedies, but you know people know I'm talking about these things where people are just they haven't been okay for a long while and then it comes out in like unreversible or irreversible violent ways and stuff. And I'm not saying like being a upright bass player is going to solve that, but like in general in your life, like I just want you to be good. So if you can be uh, you know, like a neurologist, but like you got you get you have fun on weekends playing like upright bass for an orchestra, then like I genuinely want that to be a fulfilling life for you.
Jennifer Logue:You know, like yeah, oh for sure. We're all just different people, you know, and it's like we all have different ways of working with our creativity, you know, and there's no right or wrong way. Um, but what is your creative process like as a songwriter?
Rod Kim:oh, okay, I wanted to ask you that this goes back to those two buckets I talked about, with the one about the writing for artists and then the writing for corporate so the short answer is the second one writing for corporate and ads, literally just the assignment.
Rod Kim:So I get a spreadsheet and it's like we have this ad it's going to be, it's going to feature a bedroom in the 2002 you know early 2000s and the main character is into boy bands. So I just do the assignment. You know like, yeah, um, so that's pretty straightforward, and then you just have that skill set or you learn it. You know, um, for the creative part that I really like, that, the what I imagine diane warren's process, like that I'm pretty sure it's not. Now you know that I'm getting more reality to it is when I sit down with an artist to write a pop song or a pop rock song.
Rod Kim:I'm one of those like kind of really woo-woo kind of guys where I know my one thing I'm afraid of moving to Nashville, for, besides the weather not being as nice as LA is, these Nashville writers can just make songs and I'm not even sure if every single one is like invested in. You know, um, there's like I wrote 14 songs today. You know like okay, um, but here, like uh, I like to sit down with a young, a lot of times the younger artists but like what, what is going on with you? And because it's been a long time since I was a teenager or 20 something, and then we'll just kind of maybe the first session won't write anything, and it's just kind of like a first date almost.
Rod Kim:You know, professionally where it's like okay. So uh, today you had to deal with this and this and this, and then something usually hopefully like resonates and then we kind of like go from there. Um, I'm trying to think of an example that won't like break a contract, like um, like I don't know. Uh, well, let's use an example outside of myself. So like uh, a guy, uh, dan nigro, who also used to tour a lot on the east coast with his um band, as tall as uh, as tall as lions.
Rod Kim:He went on to produce and co-write with olivia rodrigo, right oh wow I don't know what their process is, but her song driver's license, you know her big, explosive debut. Whatever, yeah that really felt like something that I would have loved to been a part of. Something like that, because it feels like she came in, she was like I just broke up with his boy and like we were so excited about me getting my driver's license, you know, and I was like let's write about that, yeah I think that would have been my response too. You know it's like because that's a very specific to you age appropriate.
Rod Kim:Oh, like, we're not talking about, like you know, celine dion's, all by myself coming from a 14 year old, you know um, or I'm trying to think, um, I, you know something more lighthearted.
Rod Kim:Like I was writing with this rapper who's a lot of had a lot to do on social media and he was just really feeling himself and uh, it was a fun song. He just wanted to write a song about like how he really loved weed and women, you know, and about like how he really loved weed and women, you know, and so we just vibed off of that, you know. We were just like at his uh, condo and um, it was talking about like all the girls you could get and stuff, and uh, like him like just being high all the time. So I was like it's, I know, it's like kind of unserious, but like this is right. That vibe, you know, like what does it feel like? To just have a good time? People need to have a good time too, you know. Um, and then I'm more serious and like I love when I connect with uh, I was.
Rod Kim:I won't totally talk about this idea because it's not fully formed yet and I don't want to like leak it before it's out, but I'm working with um, another asian american artist. He's an asian american artist who's fairly prominent in certain circles and we've been working on this song that is a very specific api topic, like, not even an asian topic or an american like specific to, like, asian american kids who grew up here, uh-huh, some very specific thing that we have to deal with, and it seemed like something that wouldn't work in a song because it's like, um, I don't know, I think it's talking about like, I don't know what the equivalent would be, but it didn't sound very poetic right then like, but just from us talking about it, through our various sessions of trying to figure out what we were going to do together, I was at home and I remember like texting him.
Rod Kim:I was like, hey, you know this thing that we all go through. And he's like, yeah, I was like I just I just had the spark and I texted him the phrase that was going to be. It contextualized the issue that we always deal with in like a really catchy phrase. He's like that's the thing. It's still on my dry erase board here, that oh I love it we're going through the rest of the song.
Rod Kim:So my process in that part is just like let's like. I said this is really woo, but like let's vibe yeah, I said this is really woo, but like let's vibe, yeah, until the right song presents itself. And then let's like kind of chisel that song out of the marble. You know.
Jennifer Logue:Yes, that's what sculptors do.
Rod Kim:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:You know that's cool and I like how you have conversations with the people you're working with to let that to foster that environment. The idea is to kind of just percolate. So you're working with to let that to foster that environment, the ideas to kind of just percolate so you're not like rushing into writing something right away I.
Rod Kim:I think part of what did that for me was um coming out to la. Something that has helped is being a lot more mindful of other people's experiences, and people who knew me in other chapters of life will would not be incorrect of them to say that I was like pretty fairly judgmental and like set in my ways and you know a lot. A good portion of that's on me, but I think a lot of another good portion of that is on, like the settings I was in in the time I was, you know, like in the 90s and the midwest and stuff. So like I don't want to, I don't want to, I can't come into a situation assuming I know what it's like for, like a young woman, to walk down hollywood boulevard alone is a very different experience than me doing the same thing, um, or you know, and so it became really important for me to like ask what, what is your experience?
Rod Kim:because otherwise it's just something in the 90s that a lot of people don't talk about nowadays is like a lot of the pop songs that you're you know pop girlies sing were written by middle-aged white men yep, yep, yep they were.
Jennifer Logue:If you listen to a song lyric from back then as great as songs as they are, that was a thing to say I was actually just thinking about this the other night and I'm not going to name names, I'm not going to name the song, I'll tell you about it when we stop recording.
Rod Kim:Yeah, but I was like man, I was like, hey, it made the record, it made the record, but yeah wow um, you know like I'll go ahead and drop this name here because I did love her work before, but, like katie perry has recently attempted a comeback and there's no argument that in like the early 2010s, like she wasn't just a pop, she was the pop star yeah yeah, um teenage dream.
Rod Kim:I think it rivaled thriller right for like most singles or number ones off a single album and stuff like the archetype for like a pop artist at the time. And she's come back in a time after being away from putting out regular records for a while, and I hope the best for her because there in a time, after being away from putting out regular records for a while and I hope the best for her because there was a time that she was really hitting it um, she's worked. She's working again with a very controversial producer.
Jennifer Logue:Uh, oh, you can do the homework on that.
Rod Kim:Oh yeah and I think that's part of why the music comes across as kind of disingenuous, because it's supposed to be like a women's rights manifesto, you know, or like a feminist power anthem and stuff. But, the person I will talk about is someone she used to have on her team was a gal named Bonnie McKee. Yeah, songwriter, she's not part of this new record and I feel like that's very apparent. Oh, something about having a woman on a record about a woman's experience? Yeah, it was very valuable.
Jennifer Logue:So, on the subject of Edwin McCain, it brings us back to your podcast. So I want to ask, with Rod Kim's Millennial Sleepover, what motivated you to start a podcast in the first place?
Rod Kim:sleepover. What motivated you to start a podcast in the first place? Oh, okay, so, uh, part of it was something where it was an extension of like it does this, doesn't feel wrong but also I had no idea I was going to pull it off.
Rod Kim:I still don't know how I'm pulling it off. I'm like I'm not even in the middle of it. I'm like the the beginning, beginning, um, but I knew so one of like the kind of side effects from being in the proximity of social media for so long. So when I moved to LA at the end of 2015, kind of fell into the YouTube community.
Jennifer Logue:And it's been wonderful.
Rod Kim:YouTube, the company, the YouTube creator community, is absolutely wonderful. I mean, you can see like I think, yeah, youtube gave me like lamps and stuff to hang around oh cool. And yeah, there's a pillow they gave me.
Jennifer Logue:When you first got to LA.
Rod Kim:I think I'd been here for like a month or two and went to a party at the YouTube studios on the West side and immediately everyone from the company to the creators like embraced you know me and the project I was in at the time. But being around so that kind of just threw me into social media. But being around so so that kind of threw me into social media. I realize everything With the exception of maybe YouTube has like an expiration date. I I'd seen vine come and go. Now I've seen Twitter come and go. I mean, I guess Twitter is like a zombie right now. Right, it's like it's not dead but it's not alive.
Jennifer Logue:Yeah.
Rod Kim:And there's some other social media platforms that like don't exist anymore, that no one would remember that I was part of and um, so I knew with tiktok whether or not the platform itself goes away, because I know that's a whole legal thing here in the states. I just know like it's not always gonna be around, for for me at least, um, things not necessarily fall off, but you know, think about your favorite tv show or whatever. There's probably a point in time. If it didn't get canceled, you just stopped watching it yeah or most people stopped watching it.
Rod Kim:Just stuff passes, and I think that's both.
Rod Kim:I think something in my late 30s, early 40s I really embraced was like that's as much of a blessing as is it as a curse, because, like, whatever hardship comes with that I know will also pass so I can enjoy the good stuff that's happening right now with it.
Rod Kim:So when the tick-tock stuff start popping off I think about a little less than a year in it became apparent that this was going to be pretty serious. Uh, because both financially the people who reached, the artists that were reaching out to me and the opportunities it was affording me um, I was like, okay, this is pretty serious, this is not gonna last forever, so I need to hustle at this. So I just I pumped out and I pumped out, I got more regular about posting on tick tock. But then I also knew like so I have, I have to have a plan for, like when this isn't a thing for me anymore, like when the viewership stops or when the platform gets taken, something, something's gonna happen. Something always happens with entertainment, um, and so the natural extension of that was, like, well, talking about songs for two minutes. So the extension of that would be talking about songs for like an hour.
Jennifer Logue:There you go.
Rod Kim:Then I came to this realization of, like, I don't want to talk, I don't want to speculate more about the songs or songwriting without the input or perspective of the artists and or the writers, because I'm just going to be wrong at some point. Right, I can only like speculate so much before. I'm just mostly wrong, and also, obviously, it's an incredible opportunity for me to gush in front of my, you know, heroes. Oh my gosh, yeah edwin mccain made me cry.
Rod Kim:My own podcast oh my gosh, it's amazing yeah um, and you know, all american rejects guys are just incredibly cool guys. We've been dming ever since uh, but then at the same time it's like since my weakness is kind of like the quirk about like what I think people might like about it, because, because I'm not like a professional interviewer, I'm just kind of talking shop with other musicians, yeah, and um, like on all american rejects uh interview, I was like so who are the backup singers and what are their backgrounds? And I don't know if they've been asked that before. He's like oh, so that's my studio manager, danielle. She's a musician herself in Nashville and she has these friends and so those there's three of them. They got to like kind of have a little moment in social media and stuff and hopefully a lot more. They were incredibly talented. I don't know if you know, like Oprah would necessarily ask that.
Jennifer Logue:No, yeah, yeah, that's. That's part of what inspired this podcast too, because I so not to talk about me again but I, we met through Rock on Philly and that was a publication. I started not as a journalist, I mean, I started as a musician and I, when I was a journalist in New York, I, I came into it as a musician, like I didn't have any experience experience, I was just good at improvising from performing, like I would just make up questions on the spot and luckily I knew about music, it was my passion, so, um, but in my interviews that's always been I, I would get that a lot. I've never been asked that question before. Oh my gosh.
Jennifer Logue:And it's because I'm I'm not primarily a journalist and I think you have an interesting perspective and that's the beauty of social media now, like we can all. I think niche podcasts are so much more interesting because you're getting to talk shop and you're not getting those general questions. Yeah, I mean, I've heard so much. I'd be on the red carpet and there would be these journalists asking, like Billy Joel, so what's your favorite vacation destination? Like trying to get their sound bites for, like, and I'm just like, why would you ask him that? Like he's being on like. Anyway, I can't remember specifically who she asked that of, but, um, it can be tough in the traditional media as a musician or as an artist of any kind, it's funny.
Rod Kim:You mentioned that because I think I need to get better at getting at least a couple sound bites, because, as I'm like going through these podcasts to try to find sound bites for social media, I'm like wow, like that was a great answer that took 10 minutes to answer. But like when did I have that moment where I asked something that you know was like a great 30 second zinger, you know?
Jennifer Logue:Well, something that I'm well, I'm probably not gonna incorporate into this season, but rapid fire questions. Maybe you end the podcast with some rapid fire, so it was like a sentence response.
Rod Kim:That could be a cool way to do it but I I just think, like for me it's like what to ask to begin with, but also, like I, you know it'll come with the territory if this keeps going. We'll see like, uh, but yeah, it was an extension of the tick tock show and or the series. And then, uh, I just more of an extension of me not knowing what I'm doing because, like, even by the time I did the first interview with all american rejects, I had realized I had not finalized the podcast name. I had been calling it millennial sleepover because, as a joke, because, uh, that's what it looks like in my videos is like, oh, it's a millennial as a sleepover it's a great name.
Rod Kim:It's a great name, thank you because a lot of people in the comments would be like, oh, I feel like we're at a sleepover, it's a great name. It's a great name, thank you. Because a lot of people in the comments would be like, oh, I feel like we're at a sleepover and you're just talking about my favorite songs.
Rod Kim:I was like let's go with that right now. So you'll see me in the all american rejects podcast. I'm like welcome to the millennial sleepover guys. Uh, I don't know if that's a good name oh I, it's great. It's great captures the vibe but yeah, so so far the artists have come on and were like, yeah, yeah, there's a thing there. So everything is just me like doing things until they don't work. I guess I don't know if that's the best strategy, but it's mine.
Jennifer Logue:I don't think anyone knows what they're doing. I think that's the secret too.
Rod Kim:Yeah, no one knows what they're doing like the I just I'm not good enough at articulate or at um contriving away where it looks like I am, you know, knowing what I'm doing.
Jennifer Logue:Like I think you know what you're doing.
Rod Kim:I mean, well, there are things there are parts of it, definitely, but overall, like, like I put in my little um, I have no idea what I'm doing posts like whenever someone's like how did you get to like this premiere or something I was like I literally don't know. I mean, I know I can tell you what the moment happened, like someone called me and I went, but I could, I couldn't tell you how you can navigate that path to get there, you know well, rod.
Jennifer Logue:Thank you so much for appearing on creative space thank you for having me yeah, this is awesome.
Rod Kim:I feel like we've been catching up in front of everybody, do you?
Jennifer Logue:want to tell everyone where they can find you online yeah, so the easy cheat code is just rodkimcom.
Rod Kim:You'll see a website there that has a little 90s easter egg page on it, but also like links to my music and tiktok and the podcast now um. And then social media wise, um. On youtube I'm just at rod kim um, and on uh instagram and uh tiktok, it's rod kim rocks, um, the, the. The whole videos that I've been talking about, where I talk about 90s music, are on tiktok, because the other platforms restrict how long things can be um and stuff. But other than that, uh, you have probably already or will eventually hear something I've done out in the wild, whether it's credited or not. Um, because, like I said, the volume of work I've done the last like couple years I've just been out there, oh, like I think if anybody saw an x-men 97 spot last year, I didn't know until months later that that was something I wrote a couple years ago, oh, wow.
Jennifer Logue:That's cool. So, Rod's all over the internet, all over the YouTubes.
Rod Kim:You may have already heard something I've done, but if not yet, those are my socials as well. And Millennial Sleepover, rod Kim's Millennial Sleepover yes, all the platforms. You can watch it on Spotify and YouTube and then listen to it everywhere else.
Jennifer Logue:And thank you so much for joining us on Creative Space. My name is Jennifer Logue. Until next time, thank you.