Creative Space with Jennifer Logue

From Indie Promoter to Sonicbids CEO: Dan Melnick's Unique Journey in the Music Industry (Part 2 of 2)

• Jennifer Logue

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In this second part of our two-part interview with Dan Melnick, now CEO and co-owner of Sonicbids, we pick up where we left off, diving deeper into Dan’s journey and his recent transition to the helm of the company. We explore how Dan’s background as a creative entrepreneur prepared him for this leap, the strategies he uses to combat burnout, and the challenges he’s faced along the way.

Tune in as Dan shares insights on fostering collaboration within his team, creating meaningful partnerships, and how his entrepreneurial mindset continues to shape his leadership at Sonicbids. For creative entrepreneurs and artists, this conversation is packed with invaluable lessons on balancing creativity with the demands of business.

Whether you're curious about the inner workings of the music industry, or seeking advice on navigating creative entrepreneurship, this episode will leave you inspired.

SHOW NOTES:

0:00—Introduction to Part 2 of the interview
1:42—Dan’s transition from General Manager to CEO 
3:03—How Dan’s entrepreneurial experience prepared him for leadership
8:24—Managing burnout while leading a company
14:15—Dan’s journey to becoming co-owner of Sonicbids
18:05—Fostering collaboration and innovation at Sonicbids
23:50—Creative problem-solving and what entrepreneurs can learn from challenges
26:53—Music industry trends to watch
32:46—Balancing the artistic and business sides as a creative entrepreneur
43:30—What’s next?

For more on Dan Melnick and Sonicbids, visit sonicbids.com.

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Jennifer Logue:

Just a quick note on this episode you're about to listen to. This is the second part of my two-part interview with the now CEO and owner of SonicBids, dan Melnick. If you haven't listened to the first part, I recommend you start there before diving into this episode. Enjoy, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Creative Space, a podcast where we explore, learn and grow in creativity together. I'm your host, jennifer Logue, and today we have something special lined up for you.

Jennifer Logue:

Today's episode is a follow-up to that previous interview where we'll explore Dan's transition to this new role, the challenges and triumphs he's experienced, and what this all means for creative entrepreneurs and artists like you. So here's what we'll be diving into today how Dan's background as a creative entrepreneur prepared him for the leap to CEO and co-owner of SonicBids. The strategies he's used to overcome burnout and keep his creative energy vibrant, fostering a collaborative environment at SonicBids. And what we can learn from his approach, creating meaningful partnerships. And, perhaps the most inspiring, how Dan went from working for SonicVids to becoming a co-owner and what that journey can teach us. So, without further ado, let's dive into this exciting follow-up conversation with Dan Melnick, now CEO and co-owner of SonicVids. Welcome to Creative Space again. Dan Yo, how's it going.

Dan Melnick:

It's great. I mean I just love that intro because you gave the whole outline and going into this, you know, every time I get a meeting I have to like, all right, I have to drive the thing and you're driving the thing. So I'm like this is great, it's almost like it's like not driving on a big road trip.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, sometimes it's nice.

Dan Melnick:

Sometimes it's just you know, you're just looking out the window changing the tunes. That's what I feel like right now.

Jennifer Logue:

Thank you, oh oh my gosh, my pleasure. You can just focus on, you know, curating the playlist. I'm driving this one, it's cool.

Dan Melnick:

Yeah, so what do you want to hear? Well, so, what do you want to hear?

Jennifer Logue:

Well, it's been. You've had quite the year. Like from when you first started at Sonic Bids. How many years ago was that? You think it was seven 2017, january.

Dan Melnick:

So it's I don't know math Seven, almost eight years. Seven and a half years, almost eight seven and a half.

Jennifer Logue:

So now you went from where you started to now becoming the CEO and co-owner. First of all, we'll get into this later in the interview. But how did your background as a creative entrepreneur prepare you for such a big leap? Because before Sonic Bids you had your own thing with Turnstile for many years. Turnstile Music Group.

Dan Melnick:

Yeah, with turnstile for many years. Turnstile music group, yeah, um, you know, it's funny because I I have a lot of um, I have some friends in finance and one of them was like, uh, after eight years of you know doing the nightlife promoting music thing, um, he was like he's like you'd never, you'd never survive in corporate america and I'm like, challenge accepted. So then when I went over to SonicBids, I didn't expect, I didn't know what to expect, cause I mean I started SonicBids when I was 23. So I was a little baby and I never worked at a larger company before. And then I started at the office in Dumbo. God, I mean first off, I would say, from an entrepreneurial leap to like working in an office under other people and not having to run the day to day. It was like mini retirement.

Dan Melnick:

It was it was. I mean I was shocked. I mean the things people would complain about who are working there, like the snacks and like the, the unlimited time off that we had at the, at the office, and I mean I was just I would just laugh, I'd be like you guys, like you guys don't really know how, how, how well you got it, how good you got it here and it did. It felt like. It felt like a strange mini retirement after just a constant grind of working all day from my small workspace and then going to the clubs every night for eight years.

Dan Melnick:

And honestly I was talking to someone about this recently is I had like kind of a little mental health decline around that same time. I didn't know what was wrong and sometimes I feel like that happens in everyone's life, where like something's not right, you can't really put your finger on it, and I kind of found out what it was. It was like going from a survival mindset where every day was every decision and every minute, every day was taken up, and it was, you know, the most pressure to you know what kind of free snacks should we order for the office and how many? What's your favorite flavor of LaCroix?

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, I love the office LaCroix, that's the best.

Dan Melnick:

The LaCroix flavors and I'm like, and it was almost it was like like mind numbing to a point. And then I just, you know, I was there for about a year and it took me about two to three months to get really acclimated and then I was just like I'll just do what I used to do and I realized I missed doing things.

Jennifer Logue:

You know, I, I, you were a general manager for a year at Sonic bids.

Dan Melnick:

Well, this, this is back when I started. I started as the promoter development lead, so it was my job when it started to get um new festivals and new venues on the platform.

Jennifer Logue:

And uh.

Dan Melnick:

I got really good at that quickly. Um and I, they gave me a playbook of how to do it and it was just wrong because it no one I think, uh, at that juncture into the company actually ever worked in the music industry. So they're going, they're going like through like tech playbooks, uh, and sales playbooks, but you know, it's a different, it's a different world that you know, we know of in music. So, uh, the approach, the approach that I took, was way more successful. So I was able to then pursue other avenues that I thought were important to the company, because my thing at time was as much as coming from an entrepreneurial mindset is, the team around me in my first company was like a family to me, and the and the reason I, I, I, I worked so hard was to make sure that they were okay and that they had a job.

Dan Melnick:

And you know I use that same mindset when I first started Sonic Biz, because I love my coworkers and I wanted to continue to make sure that, again, like they, they had a job and we all had a job and we all were able to uh, continue to, to to have that Um, I w, I, I mean I wish everyone had that kind of um mentality. But uh, what I started to do is I started to find other avenues or flaws that I foresaw in the company and um would go to my, the GM at the time, like hey, I'm going to do this, and he's like okay, and I'm like cool, and I so I would do what I have to do, and then I would add I just add it to my own plate. I didn't ask for, didn't ask for stuff to do, I just I just did it, um. And then that quickly changed my role to to become a partnerships director, and that was what I was for the majority of my years.

Jennifer Logue:

You owned it, even when you were an employee at SonicBits. You were owning it like. You treated it like it was your company. That was the attitude you had.

Dan Melnick:

Exactly, and even I mean the former GM, who's a good friend of mine, would probably agree to that. And he's a great guy and he was great to work with and we had fun together. Awesome. He's a great guy and he was great to work with and we had fun together.

Jennifer Logue:

Awesome. Now, the last time we talked, you mentioned burnout as a key factor in your decision to join SonicBids. So now you're in a much more demanding role. How do you maintain your creative energy and prevent burnout, especially now that you're leading SonicBids?

Dan Melnick:

I don't know if there's a way. Honestly, a friend of mine who is one of our advances, new advisors and helping out with everything, is a friend, jen Sellers, of mine, and she works at this other company. He was really great co-amused check them out and what they do is they really concentrate on mental health in entrepreneurship and also in the music industry, and we've had a lot of fun conversations about mental health and the music industry. But the reason I bring this up is I was talking to her about it and I don't prevent burnout. I'm burnt out right now. I'm literally burnt out right now. I'm burned out every single day. I'm burned out every single night before I go to sleep. Um, I guess you, just you, just you have to embrace it, and I think burnout is probably different for every person too, like there's certain. I mean, I know everyone has different ways of things that they can handle and things that when they come across, um, when, when you come across certain conflicts, uh, how how much stress is it going to cause and also how much, um, I guess, creativity that it would spark? I mean, we literally yesterday, yesterday, sucked, we had a bad day yesterday, um, today's much better. What we did is, you know we went to bed, we, you know we waited till the next day.

Dan Melnick:

I think my co-founder, bennett Johnson, you know he's one of his things that he's always said is, you know, sleep on it, which I think is such a great word of advice. So, like, whenever conflict arises or whenever there's a big decision to be made, you know, definitely sleep on it, because your perspective will change the next day. And you know, oddly, this morning, all the conflicts, the vendor got back to us finally, so that's great. And then also the things that we thought were conflicts. Actually we looked more into research wise and we were like, oh, this is actually opportunity. So, um, look at that, right, uh, but yeah, I mean, I think you know the burnout thing man like the, the single mom who takes two buses to go work, two jobs, like that's burnout I mean yeah working, working at a desk.

Dan Melnick:

I, I, I don't want to hate on it, I don't want to hate on on it, like, but like, yeah, we're all burnt out. I think right now in the world, especially in the music side, like I have conversations with people all the time like you have to have multiple gigs, like people have multiple things that they're doing, um, because that's how, that's just the world that we were born into. Right, that's the time period that we live this. If this was the 90s, I'd probably have one job, but I also teach at two different universities, oh that's true.

Dan Melnick:

So starting next Friday I'm driving two hours both ways into the city to go teach at NYU. Oh, that's awesome and I'll tell you when I get back home. After that drive home and Friday night traffic, i'm'm just, you know I'm. I'm burnt out for sure.

Jennifer Logue:

But you're doing things you love. I mean, I think that might be a difference here, where it's like all of your, the work that you do is aligned to music and the music industry things you're passionate about, that you want to teach.

Dan Melnick:

Yeah.

Dan Melnick:

I mean for sure I mean I'm doing I, I guess I start I I always. I mean for sure, I mean I'm doing I, I guess I start, I I always. I don't know if we talked about this last time too, but I always tell people, um, especially on the younger side, or even on the older side, cause there's people who I went to college with that are like, uh, I'm like we're like I still don't want to do, I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, you know, 40. Right and um, I always say, like, it's for me, it's never been about the music industry, it's been about it's not like where you work or who you work for, or where you're working, it's how you work, I think is the most important thing for me. So I think I did talk about it last night, I'm not sure, but it's like for me, I just want to be, I want to have my life in my, in my own hands.

Dan Melnick:

Right, I think, in 2024, one of the reasons that I'm excited and comfortable owning a company that is, you know, every day is the best and worst day of our lives is that it's up to me for it to fail or succeed. I won't, you know, I don't have to blame a boss, right? I don't have to say, oh, they didn't see my vision, or why are they so stubborn, or they didn't do this or that was a bad idea, like it's on me, so I don't. That actually is some stress off of my shoulders. That's the way I look at it and I think that you know some people like to be more collaborative.

Dan Melnick:

Some people like, maybe I'm at my house right now, so I'd like I mean some people don't want to work from home. I love working from home, I absolutely love it, and I well, I've hilariously worked for home for all but four years out of my entire, my entire career. But I think how you work and the structure is more important, necessarily, than, at least for me, like that's my passion. My passion is the entrepreneurial side. It's as as as as much as I love music, I love nightlife, I love events and I really do, I don't really look at that as my job, as much as I look at the startup entrepreneur mentality as the job.

Jennifer Logue:

That's it. It's a startup entrepreneur mentality and on that note, I've got to ask how did this opportunity come about for you to, you know, buy like, be a co-owner in Sonic Bids and become CEO? Like what was that journey like this year?

Dan Melnick:

Well, yeah, so we talked in December. My plan with Sonic Bids was to grow the brand to back to where it was pre-pandemic, which was good brand to back to where it was pre-pandemic, which was good, and I'm trying to think of the things I can say because, literally, for contracts and NDAs, the private equity firm that we purchased the entity from.

Dan Melnick:

Let me think. Let's just say it was not core for them, this product In their umbrella. It was not core for them, this product In their umbrella, billions of dollars that their umbrella is worth. No company was in the music space, so it was not core for them. They didn't see it as a long-term investment opportunity for them. I disagreed and we came to an impasse.

Jennifer Logue:

And the option was presented to me and I took it Awesome. Now, where does Benny figure into this as your co-founder?

Dan Melnick:

Great question and it's great. Working with him has been amazing. He is a he's an interesting person, a personality that I have not come across before. He comes from a Wall Street finance background. In the early days of the acquisition, which I was, you know, I January started I'm talking to the team, you know we're ready to kick off our year and then, like a couple of weeks in, I'm like everything is changing now, because now I'm in acquisition mode for financial advice. I'm not a finance guy, I'm really not, and I wanted someone who had experience in M&A or private equity.

Dan Melnick:

And I remember meeting Benny and passing through an old friend of ours, luke Montgomery, who used to work for me at Turnstile and also went to school with him. They grew up together and so I just reached out blindly to Benny and I was like, hey, like here's what I'm dealing with. I have never done this before. What kind of advice would you have? And he really quickly, just like, gravitated to my vision of where I want to take the company has been nothing but amazing.

Dan Melnick:

Uh, amazing support, the, the entire way um has operationally improved the company as well. Um, there's a lot of low hanging fruit that I think was overlooked for years. Um that we didn't have access to, um that because it was behind the veil of private equity with domains and other tech stack and so on and so forth. So we've been able to pull some levers and Benny's been fantastic and I'm really excited because he's one of the hardest working people I've met and that's one of the most important things for me is that we're I mean hell, we're working tomorrow together. Labor Day, weekend, we're getting together to work.

Jennifer Logue:

You're laboring.

Dan Melnick:

We're laboring over the weekend.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, oh that's awesome, that's good, that's so exciting. So it's been, it'll be this. You officially became CEO and co-owner. It was like only a few months ago, wasn't it?

Dan Melnick:

yeah, so the the whole acquisition process lasted from january to uh to june okay, yeah which is super recent yeah I mean it took it took six months to get done, which is just in so many ways that things I can't speak about is just so hypocritical and ironic I can't go into it. It it's fine. Oh no, it's not fine. It worked out fine it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare six months. It was awful. It was a rough slog, but we got there.

Jennifer Logue:

Cool, so now you're here, and so collaboration. Obviously you talked about working with Benny. It's always been a big part of your approach even at Turnstile.

Dan Melnick:

How do you plan on fostering a collaborative environment at SonicBids as CEO? That's great. I'm glad you asked that because I wanted to. You know there's other people who are working with me now, even from the Turnstile days, on small projects that you know I hope grow to be more long-term and a stable part of what our future is. Brian Riccardi, if you remember him oh, he's on board.

Dan Melnick:

He just started helping me out on some things. Nice, hoping that works out really well. Randy Pressman's helping out with content creation. We're about to announce I guess I could say it on here, cause it's probably by the time it gets done it'll be done, but we're we're we're working on a collaborative um, I would say, with a record label and a and an, a really well-known New York venue on a, uh perform a performance capture series, a Q and a um content series, which, which will be great with it. It's also with a magazine, hopefully too, that we're talking to and Brandy's helping out on that. And yeah, I mean collaborative.

Dan Melnick:

I constantly bounce ideas off of people all the time and ask for their opinion. I mean, I've had some of the best things come across from interns over the years. I really have. We had a great group of interns over this last summer, just mind-blowing, Just incredible. Most of them went to go study abroad in Europe and I'm like enjoy that, that sounds great. I never got to do that but I'm jealous, but I'm glad they went over there. But even with them I'll I ask their opinion. I always have. I mean, our, our target demographic is not you know me, it's, you know it's people in their 20s right, 20s through 30s. That's our target to our target demo. They're the tastemakers, they're the people that, uh, I mean hell to get a friend of mine to go out to a bar.

Dan Melnick:

Nowadays it's like pulling teeth, right oh yeah yeah, I'm still there, but um, but uh, for work, of course, uh, but there are target demographic, you know social media wise. You know I'm not going to project my assumptions as fact. At some of the classes I teach at, I ask my kids it's customer discovery. I ask them their opinion on things. Who are you guys listening to? How are you listening to? Where are you going? Where are you discovering new music? What venues do you like? What's important to you? Even to a point of marketing? What marketing channels do you? And even to a point of like marketing, what marketing channels do you guys pay attention to? Even down to workflow management, like there's Slack out there, right.

Dan Melnick:

And then the people, the younger kids that I've worked with over the last couple of years is like they're like no, like, don't do that, just text me. And I'm like great. So now we'll do text chats instead, instead of paying for another thing on our tech stack. We just use, use texts as long as it comes from them, and they, they want to do it that way. I'm cool to do it that way. So, yeah, I've learned. I've learned a lot collaboratively from people I've worked that worked with me over so many years. You know I still have my vision for where this company is going, which has remained, I think, the most steadfast and continuously proven through conversations and through research. That hasn't really varied too much, but the other parts of what we're doing. I'm always well and happy to collaborate around.

Jennifer Logue:

Cool. What advice would you give to creative entrepreneurs in building strong supportive teams? Like if you could give three pieces of advice Trust Trust, I mean find someone you trust.

Dan Melnick:

Trust is a big word, though, too. It's like trust is, like you know, we live in a world of Zooms and Gchat and Google Meets, right, so which I'd like Google Meet more now, but that's besides the point. But like trust are they working as hard as you are, right, can you, can you, can you do, you know that, right Like you can't be an entrepreneur and have checks and balances because you can't waste time on that. That's part of trust. I think it's such an important thing. Without it, it all is dead in the water. That's one of the things. That's one of the things.

Dan Melnick:

Yeah, I think that also from any, if you're an entrepreneur, you're, you're a leader, right Like that's, that's what you sign up to be, and that doesn't mean that you're judging people, but you're picking people up, right? So I think being able to spot talent and bring that talent to a scenario that they're able to thrive in is an important thing as well. And you know getting lucky and finding people you know, like I mentioned Benny, who we're going to put in the 70, 80 hours a week that are needed for this, you know, and that you know are fully okay with signing on to live to work instead of work to live, which is really the decision that is made right.

Jennifer Logue:

That you make when you're a founder of any co-founder or founder, yeah, someone who's as committed as you are to the vision.

Dan Melnick:

Yes, exactly yeah.

Jennifer Logue:

Now, you touched on this earlier in the conversation, but can you share a story about a recent challenge that required a creative solution and what lessons artists and entrepreneurs can take from that experience of like taking a challenge and turning it into an opportunity?

Dan Melnick:

I mean, I'm trying to be like challenges, I'm trying not to be, I'm trying to think not as a conflict, right, more of like an opportunity thing. God, there's been so many. Oh, I can tell you one, this is a great one. So I was working as a consultant for an internet radio station and we did a series of events in New York, um, which were great and everything was awesome and I got to meet everybody on the, on the team um, from the internet radio station, and it was all going well. But then one day, um, the check stopped coming, um, and we, you know, we put on a massive, uh concert series for them. And you know, we put on a massive concert series for them and you know, we weren't wasn't it wasn't necessarily like you know a massive, massive deal, but still, the check, the check stopped coming and at the time it was very financially bad because we already set all these things up Right, Because that's how it's going to set things up, so we were able to get through it.

Dan Melnick:

Unfortunately, I don't think that company ever fully recovered and through reaching out and the people I met through that company, we found a network of God dozens of people that were owed hundreds of thousands of dollars by this same person.

Dan Melnick:

And you know, I think and that person I don't think is a bad person I think that they over-promised and they shouldn't have done that and I hope that they learned their lesson if they are ever watching this, and I have no hatred towards that person, although it was a rough time at the time, but, um, I think what I was able to do is reach out and connect with the other people that were financially harmed by the same same entity. Um, and still today, I have close professional and personal relationships with those people that I don't think would have gotten as as developed if we weren't in the trenches, um, looking for this massive amount of uh money that was owed to us consecutively at the same time. Um, yeah, so I feel like that's that's one of the one that's a rough story. Um, that I couldn't be too specific with, but I I do love that, you know, and two of those people are closely working with us today in various partnerships and other roles, which is which I'm excited about.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, Sometimes through adversity you meet people who become partners for life.

Dan Melnick:

Yeah, so it's. Yeah, I like that one.

Jennifer Logue:

Love that. So the music industry is always evolving. What are the biggest trends you're seeing right now, and how can artists and entrepreneurs position themselves to thrive in this ever-changing landscape?

Dan Melnick:

Great, great question, great question. What I am kind of the the vibe that I'm getting is a beautiful wild west right now. Um, covid was a pause button and it almost it seems like in some ways it was a reset as well, when it comes to technological innovations and tools for artists, venues and everyone involved in the whole, in everything POS systems not in everything on the live side, because, again, I do not ever position myself as an expert on, like you know, record labels and all of that, and production, it's not my forte, but on the live side still, even you know, there, labels and all of that, and production, it's not my, it's not my forte, but on the live side still, even you know, there's all these technological advances, there are all these companies. From an entrepreneurial perspective, I feel like it's a huge opportunity. There was a lot of investment during the pandemic in virtual concerts which.

Dan Melnick:

I don't know if we I don't feel like we've made. This may be also from the last conversation, but you know, I, when I was talking to people in that, in that realm, I was like this is, it's an inch, it's it's, it's a bold move. Really. You know, like there's people that don't you know, I mean there's probably collectively hundreds of millions, if not a billion dollars dumped into virtual concerts, right, because the pandemic hit, and you dumped into virtual concerts, right, because the pandemic hit, and you know everyone's sitting at home, and they're like what do we do? What do we do? What do we do? And then we're like, oh, virtual concerts go.

Jennifer Logue:

Yep, yep, yep, it's yeah.

Dan Melnick:

Not much thought around.

Jennifer Logue:

Would we ever go back to live concerts? You know, maybe that was the thought.

Dan Melnick:

And, you know, maybe it'sed into that arena. You know, I think their argument is always it's, but it's so complimentary to the live experience, right? I just from my perspective and the network of people I've discussed this with is, and even from people I actually do this in class. We talk about it in class, I go, I go raise your hand if you watched a virtual concert. Ever and every year it's been less and less people, obviously, right, and I'm like, all right, no, raise your hand if you watched. You know, keep your hand up if you watched two and then everything goes down.

Dan Melnick:

People will watch one of those and then be like what am I doing? You know and look there's like super fans, Super fan stuff. It's completely different, by the way, Like, if you're like a huge Phish fan is a great example. That's a whole different arena. Super fandom great Awesome.

Jennifer Logue:

Like watching YouTube performances of like from the 70s from Banjo Love. That's a separate animal than watching a whole concert, like you'd rather see it. I'd rather see this band in person, or exactly like a couple examples.

Dan Melnick:

If you were to pick up that guitar book behind you and you're like, listen, I'm gonna do a, a virtual concert right now, I'd be like can we just go to a bar? Can you just go to a bar? Because I don't, I don't want to be in my, I don't want to be it's not about what you're doing. I just don't't want to be where I am. I'm in this little box here.

Jennifer Logue:

I don't want to be in a box and I think you know.

Dan Melnick:

So you asked about the innovations. Now, I don't necessarily think that is an innovation or a trend. You know there's a lot of super fan apps that continue to come out. That continues to be a trend. I do think that there's more and more tools for artists on a day to day and there's there's competition in that arena. You know there's great great companies out there, like Song Tools. I think is an awesome company. I think is an awesome company, great, great people doing it for the right reason Providing artists with tools that they need and not for, you know, massive chunks of money.

Dan Melnick:

It's not, it's not a money grab there and complimenting, I think, the ability today to, as an artist, to compliment your. Basically, you should have a tech stack as an artist, right, and if someone's listening to this don't know what that means. It's like, what technologies do you use to organize and execute around your career? Just like a company has a tech stack, what company? You know what? What's in your tech stack? Right? So, as an artist, an artist should have their tech stack. What are the different various entities and places that you visit, like your link tree and all this stuff? But what does your link tree, link to right, and then how to organize all of those things.

Dan Melnick:

Tools like that continuously are coming about from both the live side and also from your distribution and licensing royalties and everything on the production side. I think that's a great place to be, but also, like I said, you know, the pandemic kind of was like a reset and also pause, where there's technology that was available in 2019 that still hasn't even come to its full fruition now in 2024. And you know AI is great. Ai is part of it. I love AI. If you know how to treat it, know how to utilize it in the right way and you look at it as a tool, not as a replacement, then you know you can utilize that in a lot of ways too, in a positive way that doesn't conflict with art, I think take over the things you don't want to do exactly.

Dan Melnick:

I don't think, I don't know. I mean, let me ask your opinion on this is like. My nightmare is you know people are like you know AI robots are going to take over the world or whatever, right, and you know, take our jobs, which is all these things are valid concerns. My nightmare would be like my kids grow up, they're 16 and their favorite artist is a fucking AI DJ. That's my nightmare, that scares me.

Jennifer Logue:

I you know what, what, and I can't say that it won't happen because my perspective on it is we become so used to seeing filtered, censored versions of ourselves already, like seeing people through their filters on their phone, like, which is still the person right? But it's like we're slowly moving into this direction of like completely fake people and avatars and some of the avatars are very, very lifelike um I'm actually an avatar who knows, you might have an avatar one day my hands are all messed up yeah, as a ceo, maybe you go to speaking engagement and see avatar giving it.

Jennifer Logue:

who knows, knows, because the technology is speeding up so quickly, so we don't know where it will be by the time your kids are teenagers.

Dan Melnick:

On the bright side, though, talking about trends. Live Nation and other live ticketing entities have like you know, they can continue to have record-breaking years.

Jennifer Logue:

Yes, great connection and.

Dan Melnick:

Gen Z craves authentic interactions, which is great. Good for you, Gen Z.

Jennifer Logue:

You know, I just think we, as humans, we need that, and the live experience will never go away.

Dan Melnick:

Yes, hopefully Like digital stuff, no.

Jennifer Logue:

but I mean you don't feel refreshed staring at your screen all day long. But if you go to a concert, you feel in person, you feel alive again. If you want to hike outside, you feel alive again. I don't feel alive from like staring at, like the fake nature scenes on my Peloton, Like Peloton's. Great when I can't get to the gym, but I'm sorry. Like as humans, great when I can't get to the gym, but I'm sorry. Like as humans. We still need community and real, the real stuff I don't know how to describe it.

Dan Melnick:

That's right, that's that's my assessment, is I really do think that you know that will, that will never end. And even someone who's you know, someone who's addicted to tech, you know, I think there comes a time in everyone's life. I think part of growing up in general is like when you, when you taste that first bit of camaraderie in that live setting at a concert, you know it's different than like a sporting event. You know, like sporting event, there's people who are mad about things consistently, which I find is great because it's both entertainment. But like the reactions from the crowds are so much different. But when you're at a concert and everyone there, you know, is there to love the thing that is being presented to them, most of the time because they've experienced that in a positive manner, no matter what the genre is, and sharing that experience and meeting the people that also share that same kind of connection with that art. I mean it's like there's nothing like it.

Jennifer Logue:

There's nothing. It's pure love. It's wonderful, it's like there's nothing like it, and I don't think that's ever going to go away.

Dan Melnick:

Hopefully not. I'll just make sure my kids don't do that Like daddy DJ AI and I'm like nope nope, dj AI, and I'm like nope, nope, no DJ. Ai for you, nope, nope.

Jennifer Logue:

Parents just don't understand. Dad, that's what I'm hearing. I'm like, oh God, oh no, it comes sooner than you think so many creatives, dan, and you know this. They struggle with balancing the artistic side of their work with the business side. You know this they struggle with balancing the artistic side of their work with the business side.

Dan Melnick:

What advice do you have for them to balance those two sides? There's two major things I would say. One is you will not well, I won't say you won't you will lower your percentage of chances of success, however you measure that word, which I think is another thing that you should do for yourself is define what success looks like for you. But you can, you know, guarantee a lower success percentage of a chance of achievement if you do not concentrate on a business mindset because you are a small business and I know it's a cliche and I know some people actually also hate that too, but I believe it to be true because, like we talked about earlier, you know the yin and yang and the non-holistic side, but, um, as you know, someone myself, like I, used to look at myself as primarily an artist when I first started out, um, working uh in in music. But you know, I was working in music to support my art, not the other way around, which I think a lot of us end up doing. But I I think that making logical decisions around what you're doing is huge. And the other another major thing I've seen the it's like a repeat thing is the perfectionist of the, the really artistic mind sometimes tends to be a perfectionist and they're like no, I can't release this, it's not ready. We have to wait another three months for this to get mastered again or this to be produced and just put yourself out there, man, you got to do. That's what separates.

Dan Melnick:

I think that's my own mentality too. Some people may not even I just like. That's my own mentality too. Some people may not even like I just do, I'm going to do. I'm going to think about what I'm doing, but I'm not going to wait until it's perfect, I'm just going to. You're going to do it and you're going to. You can improve on the next iteration of whatever that thing is. You need game tape to actually make improvements.

Jennifer Logue:

So that's a great, that's great advice. Perfect improvements so that's a great, that's great advice. Perfectionism destroys progress of any kind, you know, because then you wait too long for it to be perfect, and then you put it out there and we think it's close to where you want it to be, and then maybe it wasn't the right thing at all.

Dan Melnick:

Maybe the response people are always better artists than I ever were once. Right, I mean they're. They're not perfect thing. I'm like you kidding me I would love this right can I have that voice? You give that to me and then you know I'll put it out as is and it'll be good yeah, we're our own worst critics as artists.

Jennifer Logue:

Seriously, um, let's see so how this is. On that subject, how can artists set and pursue their long-term goals?

Dan Melnick:

Oh, it's so important, right. You have to like setting your like yearly goals, right, and then breaking those down to quarterly and then breaking those down to monthly, right. And then also, you know, I don't think it's rocket science, as an artist, to structure what you want to do, right. And I don't think, like your long-term goal needs to be like how am I going to play Madison Square Garden? Right, but your long-term goal is like, how am I going to improve myself as a, as an artist, over the next year? Right, and it's the same thing. Like you could use the same mentality for business, for personal right, for even relationships. I'm like, how am I going to prove myself, improve myself as X, y or Z over X, y, z time? Right For artists. I love that question because it's just so important to have that conversation with yourself and, oddly, like right now is not the time to have it. It is January. I always find like literally next week post Labor Day, that's really the new year, right?

Jennifer Logue:

I agree. I think I like to say any day is a chance to start fresh. It's true and so, like, just you know, you have another day, give it all you got, so I guess so with that you should do it anytime, that's true.

Dan Melnick:

But how, how I look at the year from a musician standpoint and I and I teach too I'm like, first of all, you know, plan the year ahead. How do you, how do you want to break it down with your plays, live schedule, right? I think that's the best way to do. It is, if you're, if you're an artist, you're a performing artist, you're saying, okay, what am I doing in January? What am I doing in January, february, march, and then, you know, spring, summer, fall.

Dan Melnick:

I would say one is only play your own market once a quarter, right? I used to think, as a promoter, it was once a month, and then I was like it should really only be once every six weeks, and then now I'm like it should really be once, only once every three months, your own market, right. So if you're in New York, you're living in Brooklyn, you know, play New York once a quarter, right. And then look at the quarters, like you should do a winter show, right. And then you're doing a spring event, right, and then it's summer, right. Should do just one thing in the summer and then same thing. But every one of those things should be like an album release show or a video release show and or a birthday show right, there's tons of reasons to do these kinds of things.

Dan Melnick:

Oh yeah, and then some people hate on that mentality too, because they're like I should be able to play as much as I want. Like, yeah, you can play as much as you want if you want to do it for fun. If you're doing this as a hobby, go ahead and go do it as a hobby, play it every fucking day, who cares? But like, and don't look at it like, oh, I want to play coachella. It's not going to happen right now. Right, because anyone who's listening to anything that we're talking about is not playing coachella. Um, but the independent artist is saying, okay, like, what is? Maybe you don't live in new york or maybe I want to go play. Um, you know these main street usa festivals that are available?

Jennifer Logue:

on SonicBits now. Sign up right now. Oh good, Good to know. There we have all these.

Dan Melnick:

So that's what you should be doing in the summer, and then growing your brand of these festivals. The festivals in the summer are great because you can play as much as you want. You can always play as much as you want, but just not in your own market.

Jennifer Logue:

Yes, because you'll saturate yourself.

Dan Melnick:

Yeah, and you don't want to, and also don't go on that tour guy. Stop with the tours. You're not running a tour. Until someone's paying for your tour, do not tour. Build your audience from where you are Playing at VFW Hall in Nebraska is not going to do anything for you. The only people there are the other bands and their significant others.

Jennifer Logue:

It's true. What a waste of gas money.

Dan Melnick:

Do it for the planet.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, touring can be fun for the experience of it, like if you want to travel and meet people, and but maybe it's not the best business strategy in the beginning of your career.

Dan Melnick:

No, of course, Exactly I mean. But also, if you're in New York, go play Boston on a weekend, jump on the train, exactly.

Jennifer Logue:

Go play Philly.

Dan Melnick:

Great places in Philly.

Jennifer Logue:

Come to Philly.

Dan Melnick:

Go play DC and if you if you do it correctly you meet other bands while you're there and you're not just so self-centered that you are just only worrying about yourself, then you can meet other acts and be like oh hey, you know like we really like, you know your vibe, and why don't you come play our next New York show with us and we'll play your next Philly show? Or you know, we'll do these things together, um, and we'll grow together as a, as a community, cause that's the only way to do it. I think that's really the I mean God. I could go down this road for literally hours, and I do on on Fridays at NYU.

Jennifer Logue:

Cool, it starts next week.

Dan Melnick:

So next week, which is my whole class, is me waxing poetic about this for an hour and 40 minutes?

Jennifer Logue:

The power of community, so important on so many levels, for artists, for business leaders, entrepreneurs. Dan, what's next for you?

Dan Melnick:

Well, my kid comes home from school in a couple of minutes, and so what's what's oh? Outside of minutes? And so what's what's uh, oh, outside of that? Um, we are in the midst of an amazing customer discovery campaign. We have devs that are firing up the next version of our software. Um, we're, we're just excited. We have really good strategic partnerships that are going to be popping out on press releases over the next few weeks to a few months. It's just nose to the grindstone and getting out there, finding people that we want to work with that fit our culture, our work culture, our vision, continuing to give our users what they deserve, which is the largest vetted directory of opportunities on the internet. Sign up now and hopefully, I think we have a lot of different ways that we're going to be doing things and we're excited about the future.

Jennifer Logue:

Awesome, dan. Congrats again. I'm so excited to see where you take SonicBiz, Because I you know that was such a big part of my journey as a musician all those years too, and it's cool to see you bringing it into its next chapter for artists coming.

Dan Melnick:

It's going to be a great ride. I can't wait to do this again. We'll do it again, for sure.

Jennifer Logue:

That's all for this episode of Creative Space. Thank you so much for joining us for the season 3 premiere. For more on Dan Melnick and Sonic Bids, you can visit sonicbidscom, and if you want to support the podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is a labor of love and every single review counts in getting it out to more people. So, anyway, I appreciate you listening. As always, my name is Jennifer Logue. Until next time, thank you.