Creative Space with Jennifer Logue
My name is Jennifer Logue and I’m on a mission to make creativity accessible to all. Through conversations with artists, entrepreneurs, filmmakers, musicians, scientists, and so much more, we’ll be exploring creativity from every possible angle with the purpose of learning and growing in creativity together. New episodes are released every Sunday and you can listen anywhere you get your podcasts. Be sure to rate and review the podcast if you enjoy it, and remember, we are all born creative. Make some space to honor your creativity today.
Creative Space with Jennifer Logue
Christine Ng On Cinematography, Collaboration, and Creative Leadership
In this special replay of Creative Space, we revisit another fan-favorite conversation, featuring New York-based cinematographer Christine Ng. Christine’s work spans commercials, music videos, Emmy-nominated documentaries, and hit TV shows. From shooting her first commercial during Super Bowl 56 to Rian Johnson’s TV series Poker Face for Peacock, Christine’s journey is a masterclass in creativity, resilience, and leadership.
In this episode, Christine and I discuss:
- Her journey from growing up in Queens to becoming a trailblazing cinematographer
- How diversity and her upbringing in one of the most multicultural cities in the world have shaped her creative process
- The importance of building trust on set and creating a safe space for subjects, especially in documentary work
- How she brings emotion to life through the camera, blending storytelling with technical prowess
- Lessons learned from working on high-profile projects like Everything is Copy and Poker Face
Tune in for an insightful conversation about overcoming challenges, the art of visual storytelling, and the power of building a creative career in the film and TV industry.
For more information on Christine Ng, visit: christineeng.com.
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SHOW NOTES:
0:00 — Introduction
3:00 — Christine’s early life growing up in Queens, NYC
6:00 — How diversity has influenced her creative process
9:00 — Bringing emotion to life through the camera
15:00 — Lessons from working on high-profile projects like Everything is Copy
18:00 — Building trust on set: creating a safe space for subjects
21:00 — Transitioning from commercials to narrative film and TV
24:00 — Balancing technical skills and storytelling
27:00 — The challenges and rewards of working on Poker Face
30:00 — Christine’s creative philosophy: staying open to inspiration
33:00 — The role of leadership and collaboration in her work
36:00 — What’s next for Christine: Upcoming projects and aspirations
39:00 — Advice for aspiring cinematographers
43:00 — Conclusion
Hello everyone and welcome to Creative Space, a podcast where we explore, learn and grow in creativity together.
Jennifer Logue:I'm your host, jennifer Logue, and today we are wrapping up our fan-favorite series with an incredible guest before launching into season three on October 20th.
Jennifer Logue:Joining us today is none other than Christine Ng, a New York based cinematographer who has worked on everything from commercials and music videos to Emmy nominated documentaries and hit TV shows. In this conversation, christine shares her journey from growing up in Queens to becoming a trailblazing cinematographer. We'll talk about how diversity has shaped her creative process, the importance of building trust on set and how she brings emotion to life through the camera. Trust me, you won't want to miss this, so let's dive in. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Creative Space, a podcast where we explore, learn and grow in creativity together.
Jennifer Logue:I'm your host, jennifer Logue, and today we have the pleasure of chatting with Christine Ng, a New York-based cinematographer who works on everything from commercials to music videos, to documentaries, to TV. The first commercial she ever shot aired during Super Bowl 56, and her first full-length documentary was the Emmy-nominated Everything is Copy for HBO. She also just wrapped Rian Johnson's TV series Poker Face for Peacock. On top of all of this, christine was also named a rising star of cinematography by American Cinematographer in 2022. Welcome to Creative Space, christine. Hi, thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, it's such a pleasure. And first of all, I want to shout out Sam Jones, the amazing Sam Jones, who connected us.
Christine Ng:Sam Jones, the amazing Sam Jones who connected us. Yeah, she's amazing. She's just like a creative burst of positive energy.
Jennifer Logue:Yes, perfectly. Sums it up Like her tagline is put a little LOL in your heart.
Christine Ng:Yeah, yeah, that's exactly who she is. I mean I, um, I met her on set and it was really funny, cause we were setting up and, um, you know, like there's video village, like director's video village and there's like client or like creative video village, and so I just like looked over and there was no one there. And then I was like setting up the shot and I looked over and then Sam was there and I didn't know her then and I looked at her and I like like kind of waved, you know. And then she waved and she like God, I'm just like can I give you a hug? And I'm like, uh, and then, and then we hugged and then, um, I mean we, we became like fast friends, like immediately.
Christine Ng:Um, and then since then we've done a couple of jobs together, um, and she's just really wonderful and, um, I'm so happy to have met her, because it's like you know, when you get not like older, just like later in life, and you and you feel like you've met a lot of people who was like your people, and then suddenly like someone comes into your life unexpected, you're like, oh my God, like where have you been? Yes, it's so nice to meet people like that and feel like super connected very quickly, and that's exactly who Sam is to me.
Jennifer Logue:Amen. She's a magical human being and it's been. I feel so grateful that our paths crossed in life, totally yeah. So well, let's talk about your career and your life. You have such an interesting background. You know you were born in Hong Kong and then you were raised in New York City. How has your upbringing shaped your creative lens?
Christine Ng:you know, growing up. So I grew up in New York but I grew up in Queens, which is, you know, one of the most diverse places in the world, and I think, like growing up here definitely impacted me in such a positive way of like thinking of community and just like you know what a community looks like and and inclusivity, and you know, diversity to me doesn't even like. It's like when I walk into a room and it's one shade and I'm of the other shade. It's very strange to me and it actually makes me feel like like an outsider.
Christine Ng:And growing up, even in Hong Kong, it's like when I did, I kind of moved back to a little bit in fifth grade and even the school I went to in Hong Kong was an American school and it was still diverse. So, like every type of schooling I've been to up until college I went to NYU was incredibly diverse in in the makeup and I think because of that, it's really made me a person who's just, you know, very open to other cultures and and and when things are the same, I'm like, wait, this is super weird. So, on a, on a creative impact, it's. It's great because I'm I'm constantly wanting to learn new things and wanting to be challenged and wanting to be put in situations that I've never put in before, and so you know when you were talking about just like the type of genres I've worked in, I I want to and I crave working in all the different things, because I just want to learn, I just want to be immersed in things that I'm unfamiliar with and unfamiliarity is like comforting to me.
Jennifer Logue:That is beautiful. It's so clear that you have this voracious appetite for learning, like it comes out in your energy. So who inspired you growing up?
Christine Ng:I feel like when I, when I was growing up, like I wanted, you know, I feel like you, you always want to be a teacher at one point, you know cause? I feel like your teachers are so nurturing and and your teachers are also people that make you learn things right, like they, they, they show you things that you don't know. They inspire you to keep growing. They're like they push you into uncomfortable places, which is like still what I love. So I feel like just teachers in general like inspired me to learn.
Christine Ng:And then you know, I don't even know if I understood photography or like cinematography until like much later to learn. And then you know, I don't even know if I understood photography or like cinematography until like much later in life. I always loved cameras and I always loved taking photos, but the technical aspect of it and the kind of storytelling aspect of it I didn't really understand or really consider until I watched Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which is, you know, just like this incredibly immersive, visceral storytelling that, like makes me, makes me consider life in a different way, and also takes visual storytelling in a way, that storytelling in a way that makes you feel like you're in a different space, you know, like lensing and and um and lighting, and the production design and how they go from kind of one universe to another universe, to like your subconscious, and it's like all these things that is hard to contextualize and visualize. That film did it so perfectly. Um, and watching that film made me notice visual storytelling.
Jennifer Logue:Oh my gosh, that was the moment for you, was that when you knew you wanted to be a cinematographer?
Christine Ng:I think that's the moment when I, when I was like, oh, like what is that? You know what I mean, like, what, like, how do you tell stories like this, that you know what I mean like what, like, how do you tell stories like this? And I think it made me really consider, like um, filmmaking not just as like a, a career, but more of like a, a creative outlet, you know, um, to make something that's so special, um, and then then I started looking up, you know, michelle Gondry, and then I started looking up Ellen Kuris, who was the DP of that film and and just, you know she's a female DP and that is was was rare, still a little bit rare now. And you know, just seeing her trajectory and seeing the type of work that she's done because she's also some networks, a documentary that works in features, that is also a director, she also shoots commercials and she's obviously done music videos Like, the breadth of her work is something that inspired me to always want to be like, to have a diverse resume and a diverse, you know, accolade of work, because I think that's the only way you can grow Like if you keep doing one thing for me, at least, I feel like I keep doing it the same way and I it's hard for me to break out of my own kind of like thought process. But then you have to challenge yourself and and go from something that's like a huge crew to something that's, you know, scripted huge crew to something that's unscripted and like really tiny. Then you kind of have to problem solve differently and you have to like wear different hats in different situations, and I think that's what makes you a really well-rounded filmmaker.
Christine Ng:And also when I actually so, when I moved back to Hong Kong when I was nine, my parents so I was born there and my parents were born there too, and we still had a lot of family there my parents went back to help my grandparents with their family business and took me with them because I was so young. So I went to school there, in an American school, and we live with my grandparents and I have an older sister who stayed here because she was in college, and it was the first time where I was like oh my God, is this what being an only child feels like? Because my parents just gave me all their attention. Whatever I wanted to do was the thing we're gonna do. Oh nice, so excited to like show me where they grew up, because it was I was finally of an age where I could like understand, appreciate, yeah, appreciate, like remember that time, like I don't think I really remembered anything before I was like five you know what I mean like actually, um, and there was one night where we went outside, literally stepped outside of my grandparents, um, and there was one night where we went outside, literally stepped outside of my grandparents apartment and there was a film shoot, oh, and that I was like what's going on?
Christine Ng:That was the first time I've ever seen a film shoot, you know, ever and um, and they were shooting nights and my parents were like, could see like the twinkle. In my end they were like, okay, you can stay up as long as you want and you can stay here and watch them work. And I was like, oh, my God like cool.
Christine Ng:Yeah, like I don't ever really had like a uh, a bedtime, but the fact that they were like you can be out, um, was like you know, I was just so excited and then it was so cool to just see like a bunch of people make something together and it's clearly all about teamwork and I didn't know what anyone was doing and so we, you know, I stayed up really late and we got to see them work.
Christine Ng:And then the next day we went back and they were there again and they were shooting some daytime scenes, like in the afternoon, and I used to really be into Cantonese pop and my favorite pop star was there. What it was just like like everything, right, like everything you want as a kid, like you know, just like came true and I was so excited to meet him and like I took a photo with him and you know, and I think the potential of like as a child, meeting like he wasn't like my idol, but you know, it's like meeting someone who's famous is so insane and like it's so funny now, because it's like I rarely get starstruck, right, I think that's also part of like being a New Yorker. You're just kind of like like blase about everything Like, yeah, that's cool, whatever Right, and it's funny because, like as a nine-year-old, I was like freaking out. And then now it's funny because, like as a nine-year-old, I was like freaking out. And then now it's like I work with, like you know, very, very famous people and I'm just like, hey, I'm Christine, nice to meet you, you know, like just like super laid back and chill about it. But like I mean, I really think like that that moment in my life was kind of pivotal for me to even understand that like this is a career, you know, and the fact that they can just stay up late and work with famous people and like teamwork and make something like that was really influential for me.
Jennifer Logue:Now, this is creative space, so I ask this question of everyone but how do you define creativity?
Christine Ng:Oh, that's a good question. That's a good question. Huh, you know, create creativity for me, in the context of the type of work that I do and how I create, really starts with my connection with the story or the person that I'm making it with and the energy inside a room and how I am responding to that.
Christine Ng:And I think, like when I worked on when they See Us with Ava DuVernay and Bradford Young, who is the DP, you know there was something about holding the camera on that project that felt so incredibly impactful and and and I understood it was so. I mean, at that point I had been, like you know, working for like eight to 10 years and you know, doing camera stuff, but it wasn't until that point where I was like, wow, like how I literally how I'm holding the camera and my physical relationship between me and the person I'm filming is the way that you're gonna internalize it you know what I mean, and so so much of it is about, like, physicality that is not actually uh tangible on the screen, in a way, because it's how I am expressing the proximity between me and you or me, and
Christine Ng:you know, this flower, whatever, like you know, like it's like, and there's something so impactful about that, about how then you cut to something really wide and that kind of shows like loneliness or something you know, and it's like.
Christine Ng:So it's almost like how do I express emotions with the lens is how my creativity works, and how do you then bring in lighting, and how can lighting subtly, you know also affect that and emote stuff, or how can I help tell someone's story that honors them? And when I work in documentary, it's like how can I make sure the subject feels comfortable when I'm there and when I'm holding a camera? Because, like, not everyone feels comfortable in front of a camera. Most people don't feel comfortable in front of a camera, and I think if you're able to create this like kind of like just synergy and safe space, then they forget it's there and they're able to be vulnerable, because they're ultimately what the filmmaker wants. Right, when you're making documentaries, is this like intimate connection between the viewer and the subject and how do you break that down? And so I feel like my personality and and and just kind of like my personality and and and just kind of like my general, like energy affects the creativity in the space that I'm in, oh yes, that makes so much sense.
Christine Ng:Yeah, so like creativity.
Christine Ng:For me, in the context of what I do, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a bit of, it's a lot of that, but it's also so much about like being a leader.
Christine Ng:And when you're working on a show where you have, you know, two to 300 people or two people, it doesn't matter there's still this like need for a leadership quality and and and like being level-headed and being clear and and making sure that everyone like has a task, but also like they themselves are also owning the task. You want to empower the person you're you're assigning a task to, to do it the way that they do it, you know, and without micromanaging them. And like you know you, you want them to feel like they're, they're respected and and in a space where it's like we value you being here, you know. So that's also part of like that influences my creativity, although it's not creative at all, but it's part of this like bigger um system of like I don't know what you call it Just like leadership, yeah, like, and that influences everything. You know what I mean. Like, even just like coming into a room and saying hello to someone can influence the creativity of anything.
Jennifer Logue:Yes, it's all energy and every action we do has a reaction.
Christine Ng:Exactly, exactly, exactly, so like my creativity, can you know, can be inspired by the smallest thing, or like affected by the smallest thing, but it also reflects what I'm feeling, you know, so like I feel like. You know, generally I'm not super like emotional, but I try to be emotional through my work, my, my creative work, you know, so like, how can I portray an emotion? How can I make people feel something? Um, and that's hard, you know, um, and that's the thing where I feel like I try to do with my work, um, and then I also, you know, obviously want it to look beautiful and I want it to like, feel, um, organic and genuine to the story that we're trying to tell. So like, not everything looks the same, beautiful, like, beautifully the same, but beautiful in its own way, um, and how do you capture that?
Christine Ng:Right, um, so all those, all those things, to me, is is creativity, like in my, I guess, in my work, um, but I feel like creativity is, is, can be, so, can be, also be a solo thing. You know what I mean. Like I could just walk around with my camera and feel creative energy, you know, like sitting in a park or like being on the subway, or like anything really like. You know, like it's just like allowing the space to influence me and to like react to it. Is is all like. Creativity is everywhere. It's just like are you opening yourself to receive it right?
Jennifer Logue:That's a beautiful statement. I love that.
Christine Ng:Yeah, I could say that to myself more.
Jennifer Logue:It's another quote I'm putting on my wall, so we all need that reminder. On the subject of your creative process what is your process like when you're preparing for, you know, a project?
Christine Ng:Yeah, I think you know, for me, depending on what type of genre it is, I prep differently. So if it's a narrative project, you know I'll get the script first usually, or it depends on, again, what kind or how I got the script. But either I get the script first or I have a meeting with the director. Maybe I met the director for coffee and maybe it. Then then they're talking about a potential project and I haven't read the script, but then it's, it's. It's kind of like just riffing on, um again, energy and vibes Like like I think, like when you have coffee with someone, or even this, it's like almost immediately you kind of like can, can feel if, like, you're going to have a good conversation or not, right, like you kind of like gauge and that's really important to like then actually be able to creatively connect with someone, um and trust each other, right, because, like that's part of it too, like, and as a dp I feel like I, my, my goals, you know, is to honor the script, honor the story and help the director achieve their vision. So sometimes, like, I might pitch an idea and they might not be into it, but that's's okay, cause I know that I'm in service to the script, the story and what their point of view is. Um, and so you know I would read the script and um just write general notes about it and I try to like I try to read a few times before I have to then talk to someone. My first read is just like kind of get the basic outline of, like what happens in the story, and then I'll go back and like notice these things that the writer has done. Like you know, they plant ideas in the beginning, that kind of echo throughout the story, and how does that? How does that grow over time? And how does that, how does the trajectory of our subject also change throughout the story? And how do you portray that visually in a way that we're also growing as well? And if they're not growing, that's also a choice. Then it's like, are you just doing the same things, like throughout the whole thing, or does something? Is there a climax that happens?
Christine Ng:That then to like change the visual language of the story, you know, and there's like so many things. I mean we're not even talking about a story that is real or it has a has a story right now or an arc, but it's like you know, I try to kind of think about like well, whose perspective do we want the story to be told from, right, um, and then that affects, like how the camera ish is reacting to what they're doing. So I just try to do like a very like basic read, and then I go back and I like try to find things that kind of appear multiple times or like a theme or like you know anything thematic, that that that kind of is the tone of of the piece. And then I usually go and I look for some visuals, um, or I try to look for like like clips of stuff or something, or sometimes I like it's also a double-edged sword when you do that, because I honestly don't love doing it, because I think I, I. Then if I present images or if I present a film that I'm like, oh, it's like this, then people are like, no, that's, it's not like that, you know. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's not like that, but this is the closest thing I can find to that, you know, and like I think the hope is that whenever you make something, you're always trying to make whatever that is exciting and unfortunately, when that's your goal every time, then there aren't examples that exist that show what you're trying to create.
Christine Ng:And so it's this like, do I really want to show stuff or do I not? And sometimes I just pull stuff just to like have to like start a conversation. So I always say, like this is just to start a conversation, this is not what I'm, this is not like exactly it, but it's just to like then have a starting point to kind of bounce ideas again, you know. So then it's it's so much of then just like more conversations of like okay, like what exactly is this? Or like how do we want this to feel? And then you know, then you start working with other creative people, not just the director, like the production designer, you know, like um, like this room I'm in right now, like I created it, I designed it, you know, but it like has like energy. That like is different than my living room, you know. But it's also like um, I don't know like.
Christine Ng:I think like a space obviously influences, like your character, and like what are you trying to show about your character through the space and and color theory and things like that, and even their like their clothes, and like the wardrobes. And then like costume designer, and then you start working with your gaffer and you know you start thinking about lighting, and, and then it's like all these things coming together and then suddenly it's like you've filled the frame right with with all these ideas. And that's why narrative is so exciting, because you can, as much as you can right, like with the amount of resources that you have, like really be intentional about what you put in the frame. Um, whereas like documentary, you know you always you're walking in situations where you don't always know what you're gonna get into, and that's like a different path of like creativity and prep. But but with it's just a lot of conversations and a lot of just like, what are we influenced by and why, and, and and, and collectively as a group, like coming up with ideas of like who a character is, how do we want to portray this character, and then you meet the actor and then you're like, oh, wow, like this is like you know.
Christine Ng:Then then you're there and you're doing, doing a rehearsal, and you're like, oh, wow, I just like I imagined when I read on the paper that they were doing like that they would read it like this, but wow, like this energy that they are bringing is also something else, and that actually takes a lot of the prep that you've done, like kind of throws it out the window. But that's OK, because at that point, hopefully, you've had enough conversations to actually like not repeat like goals. Like you enough conversations to actually like not repeat like goals. Like you already know what the goal is for the scene and even though the the actor, has now come up with something different than what we all imagined, it's actually just to make it better. You know what I mean.
Christine Ng:So then it's like creativity is just like fluid, right, like creativity and creation, and that is just like you have to be fluid about it, or or you won't be happy.
Christine Ng:Like I think if you're like this is what I want, and someone comes in and you know you lose a location, you're just going to be upset. But instead of being upset, you could be like okay, maybe, like this is better, oh, this space is bigger or this, whatever, right. Like, trying to like be positive about it is also like a hard thing to do sometimes, cause if you really want something, but then in the end, things always happen for a reason, and and and in the end, things are always going to be okay, going with the flow, yeah, yeah, going with the flow is just like super important, I think, in this, in this industry and in my role. But prep is also really important, just like trying to have as many conversations as you can to understand the director, to understand, you know, or, if it's a writer director, even better, like to understand like the birth of the story and like why you know and and yeah, so it's, it's like the prep of it is is so important. So that's kind of what I do for narrative stuff.
Jennifer Logue:That's so interesting. How long would you say it takes to prepare for a narrative?
Christine Ng:I think you know, unfortunately we're always, it's always budgetarily. Uh, the budget dictates how much time we have. You know what I mean. So, like um on poker face, which I just shot this year or a few months ago it was, it's an hour long show, so it's 10 days of shooting. It's usually roughly 60 pages. Or you know, you say like a minute a page and we have 10 days to prep and 10 days to shoot. Wow, which like sounds like a lot.
Christine Ng:But then you're, you know you're literally in a car for like two days looking at locations, then you're trying to break down the script, then you're trying to get all your equipment orders in, then you're trying to like figure out a pre-light or you have to do some testing. Or you know, you're also on calls with the costume designer, with the production designer, with the prop, with the you know props department. Like you're just on all these calls and then suddenly you're like, oh my god, like half the week is over, oh, and we lost the location. Okay, we got to get back in the van and look again. You know um, so it's like constant and they're casting.
Christine Ng:So, like you know, I'm not with the director always, because they also have to do their prep, like casting, so they might be gone for a few hours looking at casting tapes, and then I'm trying to like break down the script or look at like a light, like figure out the lighting plan, or you know things like that, and working with locations and the AD to figure out the schedule, cause then suddenly our actor is not available anymore, or, like you know, you're constantly like moving puzzle pieces around and trying to make it work and do it all on on, on time and within budget, you know.
Christine Ng:So it's this constant like conversation, conversation, conversation. Or if there's like a big stunt, you also have to like have meetings with the stunt team and like they might have to go do a previs for you and like show you, you know like what they're thinking to execute the stunt and how long does that take? How long does that take on set? Um, what other tools will we need to execute that? So it kind of like everything just kind of compounds on itself and the next thing, you know, it's like okay, day one. You know, here we go.
Jennifer Logue:Ready to go, but you're not.
Christine Ng:You're still like okay, so what are we doing this afternoon? Or like, oh no, like this thing happened for tomorrow, we have to move this, or it's snowing.
Jennifer Logue:You Like this thing happened for tomorrow.
Christine Ng:We have to move this, or it's snow Like it's snowing you know, and you're like you can never control the weather, yeah, you know. Or there's a thunderstorm, like I shot Rap Sh** in Miami and we shot like end of summer into fall in Miami, which is still kind of like stormy season, like hurricane, thunderstorm, whatever season, and yeah, that's what happened. Like every day around three o'clock we'd have to shut down for like an hour and a half because it would just be like thunderstorms are coming in and you have to turn off the generators. Everyone has to be undercover, you can't be on the street, um, so you can't shoot. Or it's like continuity, like it wasn't raining when we started the scene. Now it's raining, everything's wet. We gotta wait.
Christine Ng:You know, it's this like constant, um, things always go wrong. Like things, um, things always go wrong. Like things like things will always go wrong, and that's you just have to be like okay, so what's going to go wrong today? You know what I mean. Like, if you have that mindset, then you're like okay, well, of course, uh, that's you know. And also like shooting all this stuff during COVID, right, like, wow, like an actor test positive, or like what do you call it? Um, the rapid test? Yeah, what's the one? When it's like, uh, like close contact, close contact. They can't come to work either. And it's like, oh no, you know. And then you're like trying to move things up in the schedule with people you can shoot. Or, if it does start raining, you're like, do we go back to the stages and try to shoot something in an apartment that we have a set for? You know, like you're constantly just trying to be like how do we make the most of the time?
Jennifer Logue:and the people that we have, the resources we have right now.
Christine Ng:Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly so. It's so much of all of that um, constantly, um. So it's like and, and that's like luxurious prep time too. You know like 10 days for 10 days and 10 days of shooting for an hour is still kind of like leisure, luxurious, even though it's like you're averaging six pages a day, which doesn't include what's on the paper. You know, like car crash, like that's one, that's one strip, but that could take 12 hours to shoot you know.
Christine Ng:And then, you're like okay, we still have 59 and seven eighths pages that we have to do on the nine days, you know. So it's this like you know, ads assistant directors on set are, I mean, they are incredible because they are the ones who try to really see ahead and mention all the potential problems that can happen and come up with the best case scenario for a schedule. And then I'm there to like kind of vet it a little bit, like do I agree or do I see other things that could go wrong? And and being able to be very, um, honest with my ID and and with timing too. You know, it's like if we're going to shoot in the space and it's daylight dependent and and I don't have, you know, we didn't get a pre-light I'm going to be like I need an app like minimum two hours to get a crane in here, to get a condor in here, to like do all, like whatever. And they'll be like oh, okay, so maybe we should shoot, maybe we should shoot this at the end of the week and maybe we can get you some rigors.
Christine Ng:You know what I mean. It's like this constant, like how do we map? Yeah, again, like maximize our time, but be smart about it, you know, and the ADs are always people that I am always like, leaning on, to be like, hey, what are you thinking? Or like you know what? What do you? How long do you think this will take us? Just based on your experience, you know, and and again. It's also like with different directors every time with you know, just like just moving cast of things.
Jennifer Logue:Adapting to different styles, too, is something to think about.
Christine Ng:Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, even just like communication style you know what I mean Just like you have to like be able to communicate so clearly, so quickly with these collaborators that you have that you just met, you know, execute something that is so wildly difficult and complicated.
Jennifer Logue:Here's a question for you on the subject of collaboration. How do you build that collaborative bond quickly?
Christine Ng:Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think like I ask a lot of questions. I'm just like, okay, well, so what do you think about this? Or like, are there any films that you, you know? If it's like, let's say it's not television, let's say it's just like someone's like narrative feature, I'd be like, okay, well, what films, what films inspired you for this? Or like, what do you see are complimentary to what we're creating? What do you like in general? Just like, not even just on paper, but like you know, what do you like? And also, just like you know, I'm I'm like a caffeine addict.
Christine Ng:So, like I'm always like, oh, I got to go get coffee, can I buy you a coffee? And I think, like you know just little things like that, just being kind, right, like just being like aware and being like, oh, I'm going to get some water, do you want a glass of water? You know, like, just literally, things like that, I think for me mean a lot If someone offers me water or someone like like, oh, should we go get lunch? Or, like you know, do you need something? Or like you know, just things like that, just like checking in and like just humanizing each other and realizing that we're all humans in a world of, like chaos. Uh, you know, like just that alone and and and just be like, oh, where are you from? You know like little little things, like oh, uh, you know where do you live, or like whatever, like little things like that, I think, just just just to try and form like a friendship. At the same time, um, in addition to like trying to execute something impossible, those little things matter, and not just with directors.
Christine Ng:Like you know, when I come on as an alternating DP, I don't really hire the crew, and so the crew I'm inheriting from the DP that started the job. So it's like we take turns, like I'm shooting, they're prepping, then I'm prepping, they're shooting, and the crew stays on the whole time. Oh, interesting, it's just we take turns, like I'm shooting, they're prepping, then I'm prepping, they're shooting, and the crew stays on the whole time. Oh, interesting, it's just the leaders come in and out, you know, and so that's hard because, as someone who doesn't start the job, I sometimes don't know these people and they've been collaborating and working with all together for like a few weeks, and then I'm here out of nowhere and I have to just like quickly assimilate into whatever's happening, or like you know, or if things aren't great, how can I make things better?
Christine Ng:How can I, you know, what can I do to to make this like communication easier for them, when, when I'm shooting, you know, like things like that, and that you gotta like it's fast, you know, and I don't even have time to talk to them sometimes cause they're on set Right. So it's like, how do you and oftentimes what I do is I come in and go how's it going? How's the job going for you? Are there things that haven't been working for you? What can I do better?
Christine Ng:And I say that that's like the first thing I say just to like understand, like, what are they having trouble with? Is it sometimes like a timeline thing? Is it sometimes like is it, if I have ideas, do you want me to just text you immediately so you have time to think about it, or would you rather I like compile a list and come to you like day six or seven of my prep, where you only have two days left to like think about it? Do you want to wait until the tech scout for me to tell you everything, or like what's better for you?
Jennifer Logue:Figuring out their communication styles and so smart. These seem like simple things, but I know to a lot of listeners this is going to be like wow, I never thought of that.
Christine Ng:Yeah, and it's like it makes such a difference, like also realize these things, like cause, you know, I came from the crew side, so I was an AC for a few years. I was camera I still operate for other people and like my friends and stuff and like, and also being a DP and I also did a little bit of lighting and, and you know, if you're the crew member, oftentimes by the time you get information, it's like so many things have already been set that you're like, if you had told me that you wanted to do this, I would have gotten this piece of gear, this like tiny piece of gear that would have saved our lives. It would have saved an hour of time of this or that or whatever. You know, it's like, oh, we need to go from a crane to handheld and I need to do that fast. Like that might affect how you build the camera, you know, and it's like if you actually tell people these things your technicians, who are there to support you and you're clear about that then they're going to think of ways to to make their, their process more streamlined and efficient, because if you're trying to go from like a giant zoom to a prime handheld, you have to swap a lot of accessories. So then it's like do we want to do that? Should we also think about the order in which we shoot things so that we're not going back and forth, or do we just get a second camera and have it standing by with primes? You know, it's like all these decisions that influence the time and your workflow. And then if you get a second camera, do we need another crew? And is that, does that make sense monetarily? Or maybe it does, because we don't have time and we want to do crane shots and handheld. You know, then you're like, okay, that makes sense. And then it's like, oh, if I'm thinking of a crane shot, I better text my key grip and tell him like I'm thinking of the shot I want to do this thing. Like on poker face, I had some crazy camera movements I wanted to do, and my key grip, rob Harlow, is like such a sweetheart and such a like like yes, man, you know, like yes. He's more like a yes, ma'am. He's like yes, ma'am, you know, he's always I'm always like okay, rob, I have an idea. And he's like yes, what, what is it Like? He's actually excited to be challenged.
Christine Ng:You know, we were shooting in this RV and I basically wanted to do a shot that was like children of men. You know like kind of coming around seeing all the characters whipping around, pushing back Like we don't want to see anything and and my gaffer too it's like we have to hide all the lights out of frame. You know like. And then working with VFX, like working with the VFX team and being like, hey, I need to put some track down, can you paint that out? You know like things like that, where it's like it has to become a big discussion. And then the way I wanted to move the camera.
Christine Ng:We you know Rob and I had a few ideas and one of them I had to involve art department and I needed them to modify like the kitchen, like in RVs you know how they sometimes have a little kitchenette area. So I needed them to modify the actual kitchen cabinet because it jutted out and that prevented us from moving the camera. So I asked them if they could rebuild the cabinet with, like, working plumbing, and that involves special effects to make working plumbing. So now you're just like suddenly it's like I've just that alone. I've talked to five departments, yeah, and I'm still talking to the AD's and the and the producers and my director and the writers, you know, it's like it's like this constant, like on a tight timeline. It's incredible, yeah.
Christine Ng:And you know, and and and and. While they're, while they're shooting on set, they're also thinking of how to rig things for me. So they they were building stuff, you know like just outside of set and sending me videos of like potential rigs that could work. And then I would like, then I would text them back and be like that's great, or I'd be like that's too big or like I don't know if that's going to work or whatever you know. And it's like so it's things like that, and and and establishing. Like how does Rob like to work? Like do you want me to tell you immediately? And he's like just tell me. Like if you have an idea, the earlier you tell me, the more I can think about it, the more I can sleep on it, the more I can also talk to my dolly grip, like do you have ideas or talk to like specialty crane places or other camera support places to figure out if there's a piece of equipment that we don't know about or like off the top of our head that could help us execute this plan more efficiently. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Christine Ng:And same thing with like lighting. It's like, oh well, we're gonna shoot, um, you know it's, it's a night, it's a night exterior. Um, I'm thinking we need to put lights here, here and here. We better go see the. Can I, can you leave set for an hour to drive this road with me and see if it makes sense, and then asking locations to go and take photos at night for me so that I can see it at night and make a more educated decision on how we're lighting it. You know, um, so it's so many things and that's just like these are all just tiny scenes of a whole show. You know, um, and yeah, communication is so important and and and just being thankful, like I'm so grateful for their knowledge and their and the fact that they care you know, like everyone's in it.
Jennifer Logue:Everyone has their head in the game and they're passionate about producing the best work you possibly can.
Christine Ng:Yeah, yeah, and and like, if you don't, like, I think, if I don't reciprocate respect to them, or like, really lean into, like their expertise, and say, no, tell me what you think. Like you know you actually probably know more than me this is what I want, but I don't know if it's possible, you know, and they love that Like, they love that. It's like like people want to know that they're needed right. People want to know that they're needed right, like to be a person, that you need their input, you want their expertise, you want their mind, you want their. You know it's nice to be needed, it's nice to feel like you know when you want to do something, you know you can call someone. You know they'll take care of you too. You know, like that's. Another thing is that I always knew with the poker face team that that they would help me, no matter what I wanted. You know, even though it was going to be like a really hard ask and a really tight time oh, it's snowing now.
Jennifer Logue:Oh, now you got the snow.
Christine Ng:Nice, so much better than rain. Um, so, yeah, I just feel like, um, like respect to me is really, really important and I think being a crew member before and just understanding that it's like if I had known a few more things, if the DP just gave me a few just literally a paragraph, of what we're doing, that would help me, help them, and so I try to do that with everyone I hire. I'm like, hey, this is generally what we're doing. If you have any follow-up questions based on what I said, I'm like, hey, this is like generally what we're doing. Um, if you have any follow-up questions based on what I said, like, please ask me.
Christine Ng:You know, and and over time, when you work with people like that for years, um, you just have a shorthand and they know that if I'm telling them something, it's like actually important and it pertains to them. You know, I'm not just like telling them to tell them, but I mean I am, but also it's like, hey, like this might affect you, you know, um for sure they get to know your style and how you work, and yeah there's less uh um, reacclimation time and they know what to expect, and then you can eliminate that step of getting used to each other and, just you know, jump right into it.
Jennifer Logue:Exactly, Exactly. So where do you see the film and TV industry going in the next 10 years?
Christine Ng:I guess, like 10 years ago, I could not have predicted streaming. You know which is wild. I mean, I feel like it's like a good and bad thing, but I don't know. Like short form content, it's like a good and bad thing, but I don't know, like short-form content, like TikTok and stuff that kind of like, will that become more and more prevalent in our lives where we're unable to like hold our attention for half an hour or an hour, like I don't know, like you know, like, like you know, like that's a little like scary just for mental health reasons.
Christine Ng:But in terms of like the industry, I I mean, I hope we continue down this path where we keep giving green lighting stories that need to be told and heard. You know, I feel like I feel like the reception for that kind of stuff has been pretty positive. So I hope that like that trajectory continues. I hope that the industry does become more inclusive. I know there was obviously a big push for that, like during COVID and during, like you know, time's up. I feel like you know, I think people are just like a little bit, a little bit more aware of it.
Christine Ng:I hope that there's like the backlash subsides. I feel like sometimes there's like a little bit of backlash with that type of progression, but hopefully that'll even itself out and and more and more creators will will be will be coming from different backgrounds, because I think I think when the industry is one-sided, it influences the world and I think, you know, if we can um, like culturally right, like, and if we can have more voices of different people and different walks of life, really like almost at a surplus, it might be beneficial to kind of like the kind of intense like I don't know, there's just so much like I feel like racial war and culture war and you know what I mean Like stuff going on in the world that I hope that, like, if there's more stuff to kind of bring us together, yes, Art brings us together.
Jennifer Logue:I really believe creativity can save the world.
Christine Ng:Yeah, I think so too.
Jennifer Logue:It's just a matter of people tapping into their own creativity too, Cause creativity breeds empathy. Yes, so at least by creating like the work that you do. It's that's how the average person's able to feel and see from someone else's perspective, if they're not creating themselves. But yeah, I really believe artists like we're is a service to the world to be an artist.
Christine Ng:It is yeah, yeah, and, and sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish I could do more, you know what I mean Like I wish I could do more work to like help that, um, but everything takes so long in production, you know one step at a time.
Christine Ng:Yeah time yeah, yeah yeah, so I hope that's where the industry goes. I mean it's so hard to say because it's so like political um and and so many things are merging together now, like conglomerates are merging together, that it's like I feel like, uh, the amount of media that's like being pumped out might like start slowing down, and also the economy, like it's so it's all so tied together that it's like I hope, I hope there can be more work so that it helps the economy. You know, and you know that affects everything.
Jennifer Logue:You most recently worked on Rian Johnson's series for Peacock Poker Face, which we talked about a little earlier. What was that experience like? Did you learn anything from that particular time on set?
Christine Ng:Yeah, totally. I mean, you know, poker Face was arguably maybe the biggest job I've done since, you know, or, or, yeah, ever it was. You know, like, like I said, it's an hour long, uh, kind of like movie of the week. Vibe. Uh, it was a 10 episode show. Um, I was originally gonna just do three, uh, but then I ended up being invited to stay for one more, which ryan directed, so that was really exciting, um, so I ended up shooting four, um, and each episode is its own little universe.
Christine Ng:So, like new director, basically a new cast, except for natasha leone. Um, she's like a consistent character throughout the whole show and a few other characters, but she's like in every episode and we're kind of like dropped into a new, a new world every episode. So, like that was difficult because you're almost starting from scratch every time. Yeah, you director, like you know, new vibe in a way, and and what was great about that was like, yeah, I really needed to figure out how to communicate better, how to be a more efficient collaborator, to kind of be creative quickly, to be efficient, to be and also to like challenge myself and also to to kind of also allow myself to be more confident in myself. Like that's always a little bit hard for me to like like be like no, you belong here, you were the person for the job. You know, like I think sometimes I'm still like oh, whoa, like am I qualified for this? You know, and it's like if Ryan thinks you can do it, if Jaron thinks you can do it, if Steve thinks you could, if all these producers and other DPs who are of super high caliber think you can do it, then clearly you're invited to the party. You know what I mean. So that was huge for me. Like to be invited to be a part of that was really really huge for me. And and and you know that group of people I've been collaborating for like more than 20 years and like I know what that means. Right, I haven't had, I don't have, I haven't had a, but I understand that even like you know some of my collaborators for like five years, 10 years, like those friendships are so sacred that when you do invite someone else in, they really have to be like a really good fit, you know, and for them to only talk to me for like 15, 20 minutes here and there, to then be like no, she would be a great part of this. This community is like. That meant a lot for me, you know, cause they're just, they're legendary filmmakers. Like everything they've all made are like, really just like high caliber and and different and great and exciting. So I learned so much from from being a part of their crew.
Christine Ng:And Steve Yedlin is, you know, he's this incredible DP, but he's also such a like professor, like he just is so technical, like sometimes I think I'm not technical enough as a DP, um, but he is like like literally to like the decimal to things you know what I mean Like he's like he's so detail oriented, he's so smart. He can like write program, like computer programs, to like help him light a set, to like help him do previs on, like day for night stuff. Like he was showing me things that I have not seen before and he was an open book, you know he was literally like come sit here, watch what I'm doing, you have any questions? Like, please ask. And he was an open book. You know he was literally like come sit here, watch what I'm doing, you have any questions? Like, please ask. And and he also taught me a lot about lighting and the way that he and Jaren like work and light was something that I got to learn from and also now integrate into my working style, and that's like.
Christine Ng:The thing is that sometimes I think, as a DP, you don't grow anymore because you do things the same way, and even when I try to like switch genres and switch, you know, I'm working with new, creative people my, my, the way I work is still kind of the way I work and, and I think, like um, being able to work with them, seeing the way they work, um, is just like unlike how I've seen it with other people and and being able to actually learn from them, seeing the way they work is just like unlike how I've seen it with other people and and being able to actually learn from them and grow Like. I think like sometimes it's like you feel like you can't grow anymore, like how do you challenge yourself to grow? But when you have people who are like we want you to grow with us, no, come grow, come grow over here, you know like that's huge. Like to be invited to, to learn from them and to just like, literally to be invited to be in the room to watch them work. Just observing and watching someone, you are learning so much, and so I and you know I think this is a question you asked me earlier but like, where do I hope this industry goes?
Christine Ng:I also hope that there's more opportunities for people to shadow on set, to like observe, just be invited into the room and to like take, you know, take the locks off these gates. You know, and just like open the gates and like let people in and see what's behind the curtain. You know, like it's such a mystery, and sometimes I think some things are still a mystery, even though I'm very much a part of it. Sometimes you feel like, oh, I'm not allowed to go over there, but it's like, are we just creating these barriers ourselves? You know, and you know the way that Ryan and his teamwork, it's very much like come hang out, like, yes, you're allowed in here, like, come over here, look at what we're doing, and I think like, think, like that mentality um, fosters a really positive environment.
Christine Ng:And and then it, it, it allowed me to like ask questions that, like you know, some could say like, oh, that's a dumb question. And it's like, no, it's not a dumb question if you don't know. Or it's like, oh, that's a great question. Like no one's ever asked that or like you know, it's like you don't know until you say it and you can't be afraid to say it, and they create a room that's not where you're not afraid to speak your mind or speak your truth and that's really important to like the way I work and the way I like to work.
Christine Ng:You know, and I think, and I don't know, maybe that's how I got the job, because I was I kept talking about like an energy in a room and how I really like respect is really important to me and how I like creativity is important, but you can't have that until unless you respect and respect people and honor each other and they are truly the same way. And you know, I also talked about how I just love working with my friends and and if it were up to me, I would just work with my friends all the time and that's what they've been doing forever and it's like it's just like they get it, you know. And it's like it's just like they get it, you know, and and that's like it's cool to see like Titans like that also feel the same way about what can be perceived as small things, like you said, right, but every little thing really matters and every little thing adds to a relationship with each other, and even down to the PAs. It's like, you know, some people are rude to PAs and I'm like these four kids, you know, like they are here the longest, they have the longest days. They never get to sit down, they are at everyone's beck and call. They have to.
Christine Ng:Like you know, it's just hard work and it's like some people treat them like. And I'm just like you, gotta. You know you gotta just hard work and it's like some people treat them like and I'm just like you, gotta. You know you gotta be respectful and kind to them because they're here for you, they're here to support you and also like tomorrow they could be your boss. Like you know what I mean. It's all like this world and this industry is like you never know who this you know it doesn't matter. Like, like if this person is the producer or the lead, like number one on the call sheet, or a PA or a driver, or like whatever, or the caterer, it's like it doesn't matter. They're just people like just be nice to people. Like ultimately, like that's just like constantly what I say, but like it's truth.
Jennifer Logue:The golden rule just applies everywhere, you know? I mean, there's a reason why we call it the golden rule, but not everyone got the memo. I don't think. Yeah, I don't think so either.
Christine Ng:But we're trying to, we're trying to. I keep trying to put the memo up everywhere. Just be nice, Just be kind.
Jennifer Logue:Well, this may be related to this next question what advice do you have for aspiring cinematographers that are just starting out? You touched on this a little bit before. Yeah, with the coffee you had.
Christine Ng:Yes, yes. So I feel like, as a young cinematographer, aspiring cinematographer, you kind of have to put yourself out there a little bit. You kind of you know, and I think, like with the power of social media and Instagram, the people that you admire, the people that you look up to, the people that you aspire to be, they're actually reachable. You know, I think when I wanted to be a DP when I was younger, like I didn't know how to get to Ellen, like I don't like you call their agent and they're like okay, like fan mail, whatever you know. And what's ironic is I actually met Ellen at Park Pictures because she DP'd something there and then she was represented as a director there and then she and I became friends and, like you know, it's just crazy how these things happen. But, like as a young, aspiring DP, I think it's like if you look up to someone and you like their work, you should reach out to them and you should, you know, see if you can have a coffee with them or a conversation, see if they have any advice for you or if they could just tell you about how they got, and they have the ability to have you on set to shadow them a little bit Like all these things will be able to help you with your career. And, and as for me, like I just kept working, like even if I wasn't the DP and I was like an AC or if I was a second AC or if I was, you know, doing production work or whatever it didn't matter Like the fact that I was just out there and I was meeting people constantly and just talking to people and trying to figure out what other people were passionate about. That's how you build community, you know, and that's how you build the foundation of, like your web Right Of this, like this nucleus web that I keep talking about. Like one person leads to another, leads to another and next thing, you know, like the person you met five years ago might be may have written a script and you mentioned you want to be a DP, and you guys have been kind of keeping in touch and then they're like oh hey, I got money for the script, I want you to shoot it, and then you make this film.
Christine Ng:Like you know, things like that happen, and it happens more often than you think, and it's the more so the more you put yourself out there and the more you go out and you try to meet people and the more you know, as I was younger, I called myself like an opportunist. I was like, oh, is there an opportunity there? I'm there, you know, and just like, and just be willing to be uncomfortable and be vulnerable but also believe in yourself enough to be able to say that you want to be a DP. You know, I wish I had said that sooner.
Christine Ng:Like I said that finally, my senior year of college, you know, and all my friends were like, why didn't you tell me earlier I would have had you shoot my film or whatever you know. So senior year, I shot three. I think I shot three films that year and it was like a big deal for me because I didn't before, you know, and and and, if I had just spoken up a little bit to to my, my group, my community, they probably, I probably would have done more earlier, you know, and it's like um and it it only takes like you speaking up for yourself for you to actually manifest these things and like have to manifest it for it to actually happen, put it out there.
Christine Ng:Yeah.
Jennifer Logue:You just can't keep it inside.
Christine Ng:Exactly Cause no one knows, right, like if I't say I want to do this, no one will know, and if they don't know, they're not going to consider you or think of you when, when an opportunity does come up. I actually ran into someone yesterday. I went to a Broadway show and she was sitting like diagonally in front of me and she turned around. It's someone I hadn't seen for like five years and she did production work on like documentary stuff. And then we met up outside and we were talking and she was telling me that she really wants to be a producer's assistant or a writer's assistant because her goal is to be a writer in comedy for television.
Christine Ng:And I was like I didn't know that, you know, and now that I've been doing more TV, and some of it being comedic, it's like I know a couple of writers, you know, I know a couple of like showrunners. Now, you know, and like in the off chance that I find out that they need someone I can help be like, oh you, you know my friend, you know my friend is interested and she's great, you know. And it's like if she never told me that you know who knows, like who knows, maybe next week I'll have a job for her or I won't, but like the fact that she's on my mind and I know these things about her, then I'm actually able to, like, help her.
Jennifer Logue:Yes, you got to speak it into existence. We hear that a lot, but we got to live it too. So what's next for you?
Christine Ng:Ah, that's a good question. Well, I'm shooting a few commercials in the new year. I'm working on a documentary about disability rights which I'm really excited about.
Jennifer Logue:Oh cool.
Christine Ng:My friend is directing it. She's wildly talented. It's her first like directing foray, I guess but she's been a journalist for a long time. Her name is Liz Plank. I don't know if you know her, but she's been a journalist for a long time. Her name is Liz Plank. I don't know if you know her, but she like, she's pretty like prominent in the socials, but she's really amazing and I, you know I was really happy when she told me that she wanted to do it because I was, like you're, she's such an amazing like journalist, like just like a really good storyteller. And I think, like you know, being a director is hard, especially being a documentary filmmaker, and I'm just really happy to be able to be here to like support her and to help her. So I've been shooting that on and off, like in the past year, and we're going to continue to keep shooting. So I'm doing that. I'm filming a live taping of a Broadway show. I don't know if I can talk about it, but that will be coming up.
Christine Ng:It's. It's it's an award winning show, so that's exciting. And then, you know, I've just been interviewing for a few things. Hopefully something will come up next year. I'd really love to shoot like a narrative feature. I'd really love to continue to keep doing more narrative things.
Christine Ng:But you know, I love documentary. I mean, I'm just like honestly really excited about kind of the, the, the things that just come up, cause I I just love the kind of like, I love spontaneity, I love challenges, I love, um, kind of like shape-shifting and like you know, like constantly, uh, having to reorganize my brain for a different thing and and so doing this Broadway show is like I haven't done that. I've done like standup, I've operated on some live Broadway show stuff, but this I haven't DP'd one. So this will be a different thing for me and that's exciting, and so I'm really excited to learn, you know, yeah, so it's like I don't know, hopefully 2023 will be good. I mean, 2022 went by real fast and and it was a really great year. You know, I I'm just really lucky that I get to work on things that I care about and with people that I really love, so it's kind of amazing, christine you were incredible.
Jennifer Logue:Oh my goodness. I am so grateful to Sam for introducing us and I'm so excited to see what you do in the next year, and thank you so much for taking the time Of course, yeah.
Christine Ng:Thank you for all the questions and, just like you know, giving people a platform to talk about their work.
Jennifer Logue:That brings us to the end of today's episode and the conclusion of our fan favorite series for seasons one and two. I absolutely love that conversation with christine. Her perspective on storytelling, leadership and embracing challenges is truly inspiring. It's also cool to see creativity through the lens of a cinematographer. Pun intended, one of the most impactful things Christine shared for me was creativity is everywhere. It's just about whether you're open to receiving it. That idea really speaks to the heart of this podcast and why we're all here to grow, learn and be open to the creativity that's in us and all around us.
Jennifer Logue:I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Christine's work is just remarkable and I can't wait to see what she creates next. If you want to learn more about her, you can visit her website at christineengcom and, that being said, I'd love to know what resonated with you. You can do that by reaching out on social media at Jennifer Logue. Also, please leave a review for Creative Space on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Your support means everything and it helps other people discover creative space. Anyway, that's all for this episode. My name is Jennifer Logue. Thanks for listening. Until next time.