Creative Space with Jennifer Logue

Artist Lebohang Kganye On Postapartheid South Africa and Continuing the Conversation With Her Late Mother

• Jennifer Logue

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On today’s episode of Creative Space we have the pleasure of chatting with Lebohang Kganye, a South African visual artist whose work is currently on display at the Barnes Foundation. The exhibition, Tell Me What You Remember, explores apartheid in South Africa, and the generational divide between those who lived through it and a new generation in South Africa, born during the transition to democracy.

Lebohang’s work spans different mediums, working in photography, dioramas and film, to name a few. She describes her art as “a practice,” and presents her family’s stories alongside the larger context of South Africa’s history.

With today being Mother’s Day, it would be remiss of me to not highlight one piece in particular in our conversation, Ke Lefe Laka, that continues Lebohang’s conversation with her late mother. Translating to “my legacy” or “my inheritance,” this series of moving portraits connects past and present and can only be fully experienced by seeing it in person.

Tell Me What You Remember is on display at the Barnes through May 21, so there’s still time.

Also, Lebohang has an exhibition that just opened in Cologne, Germany at the Rautenstrauch Joest Museum.

For more on Lebohang Kganye, visit: lebohangkganye.com. 

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SHOW NOTES:


0:00—Introduction

3:01—Growing up in South Africa’s moment of hope

8:15—Finding inspiration from theater, poetry

10:30—The impact of David Goldblatt’s Market Photo Workshop

13:30—”I always felt like art chose me.”

15:10—What drives Lebohang as an artist

17:00—Her definition of creativity

19:26—The trouble with looking for a project

25:00—A day in the life of Lebohang

29:22—Greatest challenges so far

30:22—Growing as an artist and her Cologne exhibit

35:32—’Tell Me What You Remember’ at the Barnes

38:28—The influence of Muthi Nlhema’s book ‘Ta O’reva’

42:00—Continuing the conversation with her late mother

45:00—The meaning of “direto” and its role in preserving black family history

47:40—Being the lightkeeper of her family’s legacy

49:19—How does it feel to share your story with the world?

50:33—What’s next for Lebohang

52:15—Advice for aspiring artists



Jennifer Logue:

Hello, everyone and welcome to another episode of creative space, a Podcast where we explore, learn and grow and creativity together. I'm your host Jennifer Logue. And today, we have the pleasure of chatting with lebohang. Kanye, a South African visual artist whose work is currently on display at the Barnes Foundation. The exhibition, tell me what you remember, explores the part hide in South Africa, and the generational divide between those who lived through it. And a new generation in South Africa, born during the transition to democracy. Welcome to Creative Space level Hey, gang.

Lebohang Kganye:

No, thank you.

Jennifer Logue:

We finally made it finally, is, I'm so excited to talk with you about your work. And I absolutely loved your work that I saw at the Barnes this month. It was just incredible. Thank you. And I learned so much. Just the emotional context. Two, and it's like, because you're coming from the point of view of your family, first and foremost, that legacy, it just, it adds a different lens through which to view this top period of history. Which is amazing.

Lebohang Kganye:

Yeah, I mean, I think that the family narrative has been quite crucial in my, in my practice. And it's been the starting point for for a large part of my work and my practice. And so I think would tell Tom, what you remember, having those works and having the, you know, the sort of works that you enter into, that speaks the film before the album was crucial in terms of how the audience understands my background, but also understands what's been central in my practice, which is the family narrative, and personal histories.

Jennifer Logue:

Absolutely beautiful, really touching. Before we dive into your work and the exhibition, first of all, I want to ask, Where are you calling from today?

Lebohang Kganye:

I'm currently in Johannesburg. So that's where I'm based. So that's yeah, that's why I'm lucky.

Jennifer Logue:

Oh, my gosh. And on creative space, I always like to start each interview by going way back into your early life, to get a sense of context for your own creative journey. So where did you grow up? And what was your childhood like?

Lebohang Kganye:

So I grew up in Johannesburg, South Africa, and I've been based there my whole life. I mean, I travel a lot. But it's been my base. And it's really what's at the center of my work. So a lot of my works are specifically around South Africa and sort of my thinking through it, South Africa, and the sort of political context that that I'm sort of living in, and by sort of tuning into my family and hearing about their memories, because it's different generations. And so the generational conversation is quite as quite crucial. So I was raised mainly by a woman. And so the female narrative, or the female narration of history is, is really at the center of, of my sort of investigation. And so that's also helping you understand my identity within the South African context, as I sort of be as a young female, South African, by sort of engaging with my aunts and with my my grandmother.

Jennifer Logue:

Oh, my gosh, so what did you love most about your upbringing? In South Africa? Um,

Lebohang Kganye:

gee, that's such a difficult question. I mean, I think also being born post apartheid, you know, in a moment where there was so much hope, for the future, you know, and being born at a time where, but our first black president, President Nelson Mandela, there was so does a very specific moment. And so that's really what I remember about about my childhood, I remember being in a really hopeful place, because, you know, everyone was really in a good moment, and had many dreams for the children who could finally go to school in like multiracial schools, because that was not happening before. So I grew up really in that moment of hope. And so that's what I remember about my childhood. I remember. You know, that they weren't the sort of tensions that exist, I think globally right now. But also that exists currently in South Africa. So my childhood was really like that. I think the word would be hopeful.

Jennifer Logue:

Did you talk about The past in your childhood? Or is that kind of kept out of the conversation where you shield it from what happened before? what life was like before for a while?

Lebohang Kganye:

I mean, I think the conversation of apartheid was a very, it wasn't a conversation, then I would say, could be shouldered I think because, you know, because there was sort of a very evident point of trying to rewrite the wrongs of the past. And so that was really what was happening. And so there weren't many sort of forms coming out, you know, about a party's and about the transition. And I mean, I wouldn't say that, from my family point of view that there wasn't necessarily a conversation. So my family was not politically active. So you know, so I wouldn't say that the conversation around the past was something that was that was there in my sort of childhood. And that's why my work at this point as an adult is about hearing about the past from them. And so that's a journey that I that I started in my in my 20s. So it wasn't a journey that, that I sort of had, or the conversations that I had as

Jennifer Logue:

a child. Yeah, because I noticed in a lot of conversations I've had with people may have experienced trauma in their family line, a lot of times, it's not talked about, at first, and as an adult, the artist goes back to uncover what happened to talk about it, because then you know, you're in, you're in a more mature place to handle it, and to also get meaning from it. And, in your case, create amazing art that's speaking to so many people. So who are your biggest inspirations in your early years?

Lebohang Kganye:

Um, I mean, I've always really loved theater. So I really wouldn't say I mean, I don't really intend on studying photography, I knew I would be a storyteller somehow. But it was never really meant to. I never really imagined it would be photography. I didn't know that people studied photography. Firstly, I always loved stories. I've always loved books. And so I mentioned that I'd go in the direction of writing. And so a large part of my influence has always been literature. And so I've always loved African literature. And so I mean, that sort of comes through in the in the later works, which were one of the works is currently enjoyed the band's by Malawian writer mooting Kemah. And the novel is called towel river. So I mean, at this point, I'm definitely sort of getting more influences, even outside of my family narrative and outside of the South African context, even though my work is still very much deeply rooted in the sort of South African context. But in within feminism allowing, right that's, that writes about South Africa, and and it's a fictional sort of book. And so fiction has always the so don't like performance and fiction. And storytelling has always been really key. And that's always been my main inspiration, I think, more so than the visual space, if I can say so. So the space of imagination for me, has always come from from literature. And so my biggest influences come from from that space.

Jennifer Logue:

What did you study when you went to college?

Lebohang Kganye:

So I saw when I was in high school, I had already been doing theater, and performance and storytelling. So I'd already started traveling from when I was about 16. And been exposed to that world, I knew that I loved poetry, I knew that I loved words. And you decide, imagine that that would be the direction I'd go in. And when I didn't get accepted into journalism school, I then ended up studying photography. I mean, it was really meant to be like a sort of stop gap. And I was meant, you know, sort of applied for journalism the following year, which never happened because I, you know, I've got the market photo workshop, and I somehow fell in love with photography. And I say that also. I use the term photography quite loosely, because I don't necessarily consider myself a photographer, I would say that I fell in love with the possibility of using images for storytelling, right that and so I then sort of stayed with it, and then ended up not studying journalism. And so that's, that's that's really how it happened. And then I then studied Fine arts afterwards and as an undergrad and then yes, so that's that's really how it happened for me. So because I felt that with working with images, I could incorporate all of my different interests I could incorporate to my sort of interest in storytelling and and bring in all of the literature that I was reading and recreate that with with images.

Jennifer Logue:

For our listeners, can you describe what the market workshop is?

Lebohang Kganye:

So the market photo workshop was a is school when institution that was founded by David Goldblatt, a South African photographer, and so he founded the place really think with a vision to give access to photography to people that would have otherwise not had access to photography, so to underprivileged communities, and so on. And so the school really started with that sort of vision. And it's an I mean, it started also, so he came from a sort of documentary background and came from like a generation of photographers, then we're really documenting the struggle against apartheid. So they so they sort of documented the traces of apartheid on the landscape, or, or the sort of tensions are documenting the townships and how this and how apartheid was basically effect on the townships and everything that are sort of happening during that time. And so, with the institution being started with the agenda tools for communities to tell their own story is or for people to tell their own stories, as apartheid ended, which is an at a moment when I when I came to the to the market photo workshop, it was in a very different moment because my generation was not was not documenting the sort of struggle against the pipe to war the truth of it, as it was that generation was very much more focused or concerned with I think more identity and you know, identity sort of post apartheid and so, so my generation really I think imagination of photographers arrived at the market for a workshop at that time. You know, including people XIV long Lamborghini Zanella, Mohali, Nova Lego, Toby Sosa Khaled, like a large part of the ones that came at that time, a lot of the work is, is more so I think, leaning towards looking at sort of post apartheid identity, but not even thinking around that as post apartheid identity. But versus really what is, yeah, just looking thinking around identity. And because, you know, South African photography really fitted into a specific box. I think before that, because of the, you know, the more the moments that people have David Goldblatt sort of existed in.

Jennifer Logue:

Very cool. So when did you know you wanted to dedicate your life to art

Lebohang Kganye:

I don't know if my life was dedicated to art. So I mean, I because I felt that I never really chose photography or art. You know, I always felt like it chose me that there was a moment where I sort of when I decided to go do my undergrad or so after I finished my photography studies, and I decided to go do my fine arts, undergrad studies. It was really to sort of figure out if I actually really wanted to do this thing. And so and so that was really because I felt that I'd never really had chosen it and things sort of just had happened with me not getting into journalism school. And but somehow I was really drawn to this world, and, and then things were was was starting to happen for me, career wise. But I wasn't sure that it was my path. And so then when 10 sort of went into the studies to sort of hide away from it, or to be sure that it was my part. And so yeah, and so I think it's taken me a few years to really be comfortable with the term photographer or artist or visual artist specifically, I think, because I think that at this moment, that term sort of storyteller resonates more because it sort of speaks to the fact that what is really at the core of it all is storytelling.

Jennifer Logue:

And that's what drives you. The same is like and and that's my next question actually, apart from I know, you have such passion for story and for literature, but what drives you as an artist lebohang

Lebohang Kganye:

What drives me as an artist? So what's really been key in, in my work has been stories that I'm told, and really thinking around thinking around communities that I've spoken for. And so that's, that's really why oral history has been has been key in my practice. So, you know, so speaking with my grandmother, speaking with, you know, like, at this point, there's a, there's a work I'm doing to the round, lighthouse keepers. And so, you know, sort of spending time with light lighthouse keepers, and, you know, and speaking with them about their memories. So, you know, so ultimately, at the center of it all, it's oral histories, but also really problematize, the official histories and what is said to be history, and who writes the history and whose history is written. And, and so the work that I do is really, I try to not make it a counter. Because, you know, it's, you know, because it's, it would mean that it's it, to some degree, it can suggest a sort of inferior history. But it's not, it's not about sort of countering official histories, as it is really about. Seeing that there's a there's another side that's not been written about

Jennifer Logue:

the untold stories, because everyone has a story, and everyone has a perspective on things that happened, and sometimes only one version, most of the time only one version is the one that everyone knows. So it's beautiful, that you're shining, you're literally shining a light to tell these untold stories. So this is creative space. And I love asking this question of everyone. But what is your definition of creativity?

Lebohang Kganye:

I mean, I think as artists, we often only think of like, these mediums as the, you know, as the only things that sort of creativity falls under. Yeah, and I personally don't think that that's the case, I think even in thinking around food, you know, sort of day to day, expressions, painting your house, you know, how you sort of arrange your house and your furniture. So for me, all of that fits within creativity. So within, so I wouldn't know how to describe it. I think that it's such a, that it's beyond dare call, and things that sort of hang on walls, that, to a large degree, creativity can sort of exist also within functional objects. And yeah.

Jennifer Logue:

What do you what do you think it comes from? There's no right or wrong answer. Obviously, it's creativity. It knows. We don't know. But I

Lebohang Kganye:

want to say it's intuitive. I think it comes from many different different places. I mean, as someone that highly believes in spirituality, and that sort of also being like a guide for, for my practice, for example, that it's, it's sort of sits within my, my purpose. So spirituality for me is also at the center of, of what I do. But I think intuition, I think is really where I think creativity comes from. And that's also in influenced by by many things.

Jennifer Logue:

When you have an idea, LeBeau hang for something because you probably have ideas coming to you all the time. How do you know? Okay, I have to make this. Like, this isn't just a passing idea. How do you know an idea is something you want to execute?

Lebohang Kganye:

Um, it's always different. I think it'd be every word comes at me differently. There's, you know, there's sort of ideas that might be brewing for a really long time. And maybe there's a recognition that it actually needs X amount of time. Like, for example, what I made during the lockdown Were really works that I'd been thinking about for quite some time, such as most of its identity, which is the fabric work. So the patch works are currently at the Barnes Foundation exhibition. So as you enter the show, you see these larger than life, fabric works. And so there had been work that I've been thinking about for quite some time. So you know, because of the sort of, because of not traveling during lockdown, because of being stuck in the house or in the studio during that time, then I could really resolve this idea. And so it's always different. And then there's works that get inspired by reading a book, or get inspired by just seeing something and it sort of really sparks something, and the work is able to sort of resolve as you making it. So it's always really different what what inspires different works, and there's times when I'm definitely looking for a project. And those times are, I'd say, sometimes the dodgiest works, that comes from a time when I'm forcing myself to make work versus when a work comes to me so. So So I think half the time when the work comes to me, it's, it's this, these elements are these things that sort of guide the process somehow. But I think when unlike one and make this or it's just like, I think it's quite different than me that you put it like that.

Jennifer Logue:

It's like when things are just flowing naturally, it just yields a better experience in the creative process. Yes, for sure. So your creative journey has taken you down so many roads, you I mean, you've worked on TV sets, you've done photography, how have these different experiences influenced your work,

Lebohang Kganye:

working on production or TV sets was after my photography studying. So I mean, it was also yet again, another look messy, something that was meant to be temporary. I mean, it was temporary, but I had finished my studies, I didn't have a job that I needed to get a job, you know, what I sort of figure out what I'm gonna do with the sort of photography qualification, and then ended up getting a job on set. And, you know, and I didn't I mean, at the time, I didn't realize that it would end up you know, sort of being something that really ends up shaping my practice. So during that time, I got really fascinated with set design. And, and so later, I think in a year's time, so I so I sort of worked there for two years. And in a year's time. I then started working on one of the works Gil Gil, a fella aka story, which was a story about my grandfather. And then I created these cardboard cutout sets, almost creating this world, where I then reenacted these narratives about my grandfather and having these cardboard cutouts as, as a background, as I said that I'm almost performing on this world that I'm performing in and imagining the stories of my grandfather. And so every, I think every work has really been influenced by different things. So you know, so my practice has continued to use that sort of language of cardboard cutouts and sort of set design in theater design. So theater sets and and television production sets and in different ways in different scales. So the earlier work so the sort of launch card cardboard cutouts almost life size, and you know, now there's the sort of smaller ones, which I like, Durham is, you know, almost referencing shadow theaters. And yeah, and also referencing pop up box children's pop up box. So, you know, so there's all of these different, you know, different influences, in terms of form that come from many different, different directions.

Jennifer Logue:

So every step in your journey has had an influence on the work that we're seeing today at the Barnes which is so cool. Who have been your greatest creative influences.

Lebohang Kganye:

I mean, many people I'll start with Marissa banda. For example. Carrie Mae Weems and Kara Walker. William Kentridge, Shailene Khan. So that's really from like a visual arts point. But there's also many In terms of writers that have also been extremely instrumental in my practice, so, so the list is really endless. Yeah.

Jennifer Logue:

Cool. What is a typical day like for you?

Lebohang Kganye:

A typical day includes lots of emails. I mean, a typical day, I think my, I mean, things have changed significantly. There has, there was a moment when it was really 70% sort of organization, and like, administration, and proposals and research and the low and 30%, my auto studio practice was at this point, there's definitely more of a balance. So it would include I mean, more so now, which is not always great, the zooms, and the sort of online conversations and meetings. So those are trying to schedule twice a week. And so that I have enough space for my practice, which is, you know, which includes reading, which includes writing, and research. But it also includes the making so. So trying to sort of balance the the necessary side or sort of being an artist, which is the sort of organizational stuff and administrative stuff with how much time I spent in the studio making work. So I still don't, I still don't think I spend enough time in the studio making work is long periods, it might sound like that's not possible. I mean, there's sometimes extremely extended periods where we are making so much work. Also, because the Studio includes so many people that I collaborate with. So I'd be working with, let's say, three seamstress is that, you know, we're working together for the patchwork, so the fabric words you might have. And then there's the my studio manager, there's the studio assistant. And then we'd be working on the cardboard cutouts works. And then we'll also be in conversation with the animation studio that we are working with for a full more new animation. So it includes so many different people. And that's kind of worried meetings, because there's so many people sort of interact with for all the different sort of creative projects. And then also typically speaking to museums and galleries and different institutions that the work is being shown and for all the organizational stuff around the different exhibitions

Jennifer Logue:

that are so interesting, because, you know, we see the work in museums and exhibitions, but we don't see the work that goes behind the work. You know, so it's just this whole world that I don't think the average person understands.

Lebohang Kganye:

That's, I mean, I think I think that even as a as a young artist, the concept of actually how much administration has goes behind being a full time artist, I think we are and we are told about this, being a full time artist is literally half the time I think especially in the sort of young emerging artist years. It's very much administrative and organization and the sort of beast. And then I think, perhaps I imagined I hope, then as you get older, established I it this but I don't know how you avoid all the organizational and administrative stuff, because it's really, it's really a part of it.

Jennifer Logue:

It's a foundation, you know, you need to be organized to like to be able to do the work and take it work and go and to work with the team. And it's just, yeah, something we don't talk about a whole lot, but we should what are the greatest challenges you've faced in your career so far?

Lebohang Kganye:

Um, geez, I mean, it's it's a difficult one because it's different challenges, I think at different points. So I think being a working very much as an independent artist comes with its own set of challenges and as my title is kind of comes with its own set of rewards. You know, I think that leading a large team has its own different sort of challenges as well. It's a different, it's really difficult to sort of pinpoint at because it always shifts as to what the biggest challenge is, as a creative, I would not know how to answer that and choose one,

Jennifer Logue:

what would be the greatest challenge in this moment in time for you? This week?

Lebohang Kganye:

Let's see. Okay, so as I'll speak about a very particular story, we've just finished a new work, which included a foam and an installation, and it opens in Cologne, on the 11th of May. And you know, and so we've, I've been doing this research for the last year or so. And looking at sort of ethnographic archives, and, and we then also traveled to Cameroon, because the research was based on Cameroon, and the history between Germany, specifically cologne, and Cameroon, and colonization and Cameroon, at some point being a colony to Germany. And so this was quite a, it was a difficult project, because of, you know, how this how sensitive the archives and how difficult the archival material was, that I was sort of seeping through for this work, especially thinking around sort of ethnographic archival material. So that was the one part of how the difficulty just sort of ethically and finding, finding a sort of way to speak about sort of the ethics, but also on restitution, and all of these important, you know, sort of topics within this context. And then, so to do that, and to still have a creative output. And then three was just the creating the work itself was so difficult.

Jennifer Logue:

Sounds complicated. Yeah.

Lebohang Kganye:

So I mean, I think that half the time also working within a site within a invitation context can also be can also be really challenging, because it's, you know, it's these are important conversations to be had, and the work is important. So it just presents many challenges. So so that particular project and one about a year or two ago, which was quite similar, which was for commission by the Bristol photo festival, really a similar sort of context as what I've just mentioned, for the Cologne project. So these I think, because now it's been these two different Commission's, you know, I think it's really a moment sort of step back and, and sort of think around it holistically, because it is extremely challenging work to make, because of those sort of particular reasons, balancing the creative with all of these ethical questions that you are having. And

Jennifer Logue:

so you can impart and experience the list to the viewer of your work to take, like, what is that thing that you want them to walk away with?

Lebohang Kganye:

Yes, and I mean, I think it's always I mean, even with the show at the bands, I think what's really become evident for me is the question around proximity to, to, you know, to showing alongside someone proximity to a difficult archive person, you know, difficult conversations a particular history so I think this this question of proximity and what how to Yeah, and ethical questions I really just the moment that I'm really in as I'm as I'm thinking about my my practice as it grows, and as I really step away from the fam family archives, and as I step away from South African archives, are the ones that aren't as difficult to work with. So, so that's, that's, that's what I think at this point is the most challenging, challenging thing for me as an artist is that's very much working with archival material.

Jennifer Logue:

So I love how you're growing and the questions you're asking over the art. And because you're just challenging viewers of your work to, to think more critically and to see things from a different perspective. And I'm really excited to learn more about what you're doing cologne that I know will keep the top the conversation focused on the barns for now. So as I mentioned earlier, your work is currently on display in tell me what you remember at the Barnes Foundation in Philadelphia, do you want to give listeners an overview of what they can expect to learn and experience?

Lebohang Kganye:

Um, so Tom, which remember is an exhibition that I mean, is, is my work. And so Williamson's work, who's a South African artist that comes from a much older generation. And so, you know, and so the exhibition is very much about the framing in the same way that the works are, it's about the sort of intergenerational conversation. And so it's the generation of myself as a young artist, that sort of lived post apartheid, and Sue Williamson is an older artist of a different race, who's lived during apartheid. And so the conversation around race raise the Finjan variations, I mean, both being practicing female artists from South Africa. And, you know, in the work sort of touching on the themes of, of intergenerational conversations, even so me having these conversations with my grandmother, for example, who is really at the center for the family, for the family research that I've been doing. And so, you know, sort of making work with different generations, in the same sort of way that I not saying, but in sort of different ways that I work with different generations. And so there's these sort of layers around the apartheid in post apartheid conversation. And so that's really what's at the center of the works. I mean, the the work is very much centered around the image and photography, but they actually very few works that are sort of photographic prints. And so both, both spaces, or both artworks are really different mediums. So from photography, to video, to fabric works to installation, to animation. And so it is quite a it is a it is an exhibition that, you know, one can take a lot from, because of the different sort of questions that the exhibition asks from the work and from the sort of different themes and you know, as you as you walk into, because it's, it's sort of two different or separate spaces, and then there's one room where both our works exists together, but and then to two spaces with her work and my work. And so there's a lot to really take from from the exhibition because of all the different questions that that it presents the audience with.

Jennifer Logue:

I really loved in search for memory. And you said earlier that it was inspired by the novella. Teresa, you want to talk about that.

Lebohang Kganye:

So in search for memories, is one of my recent works. And so that's also an activist that I worked on Truman, during the lockdown. And so I had, I had met with a theater director from Malawi, about a year prior and, and we and he saw he had introduced me to this book, Tar River by a by a Malawian right, our writer from Malawi. And he, you know, so you introduced me to this book, and he then created so he was gonna do is play on this book, his theatre piece on this book. And so then, you know, in reading this book, I could, I could almost visualize it. I mean, it's like a sci fi novel about South Africa. So it's, so it sort of takes you to through these different time periods. I mean, it's quite a difficult read to some degree, because this moment where you're not sure which time period you're in, because it's sort of the past, the present and the future. So it's, it's presenting different possibilities for for South Africa. So it you know, so it's sort of bringing Mandela from, from the past or from the future now, remember to to look at what the possibility of what South Africa has become. I And so it's quite a, it's quite a beautiful and it's quite, you can almost visualize all of these different possibilities. So he presents us with the possibility of what South Africa could have been. And we had Oliver Tambo, who was also like a political activist had, he became the president and CEO of Nelson Mandela. And he also, you know, sort of speaks to the history of as violence being inherited as well, in the same way that trauma gets inherited. And so he speaks about how it's basically about the healing that South Africa has not gone through, sort of post apartheid, and if that doesn't happen, how the generations almost inherit the trauma and and they pass it on and, and how they, they almost also inherit the violence of apartheid. And that gets then that then trickles down into family context that trickles down into sort of social contexts and within the family context. And obviously, because of the racial tensions as well, that have not necessarily been properly addressed or have rectified and, you know, things not having been put in place for, for the healing of a nation. And so Tara is, is the book is very much about if you know, these things, things aren't addressed what South Africa could ultimately become.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, and these lessons can be applied to other countries as well, of course, you know, times in history that aren't properly rectified. I'm gonna have to read that book. Hope there's an English translation.

Lebohang Kganye:

For me, I also loved it isn't English.

Jennifer Logue:

Oh, it is okay, perfect, then I am all set them off to link to in the podcast description. I also loved killeth Aloka, her story. And you were able to continue the conversation with your late mother through this work, which I loved. It was powerful for me and for a lot of other people that I've talked to about it to have those deeper conversations with someone before they pass. You know, but first, can you describe work visually for listeners, and then we'll talk about what it means for you.

Lebohang Kganye:

And I'll emphasize that the listeners need to go see the show.

Jennifer Logue:

Yes, you have to see the show. It's at the Barnes through May 21. In Philadelphia, so

Lebohang Kganye:

um, so Kyla falaka has a word that I made 2013. So this was a word that this was really the starting point of the family narrative. So it was about, I started the work about two years after my mother passed away. And and the work very much started because I've been looking at the family photo albums and looking through my mother's four albums, and realizing that a lot of the clothes that she was wearing in these photos when she was around the same age that I was when I was looking at these photos, were still in her wardrobe. And so and I could recognize a lot of the locations where she'd been photographed. And so the work is about me finding these places that she'd been photographed and reenacting her photos by addressing in the exact same clothes and posing in the same way that she was posing. And so this was really very much where my family history or my research on my family history started. So it started with this search form, I would say the search for my mother or the and then it sort of was about me finding a place within the family narrative or within the family. And so I really started to Then branch out after Calif Alaska, by then making the research about my family name, and, you know, researching where my family had moved or my family was based, and how they ended up in the different locations. So, you know, so this idea of sort of dressing up and, and performance really started at that point. And this idea of also going to two places really started with this work with me sort of tracing my mother, what traces my mother's footsteps and the rest of the worker and my family history, you know, with me sort of going to some of the places that they lived and meeting family members again becomes this continuous sort of trace of, of my mother's lineage of my lineage of, of my family.

Jennifer Logue:

It's beautiful, it was really powerful. And we have to talk about the short film as well. DeRay Till Can you explain what a juried show is? For listeners,

Lebohang Kganye:

it's actually not the title of the film. So director is a Soto, which is one of the live in South African languages. So director in Soto means clan names. And it is. So it's basically a poem that each black surname has. And it becomes almost like a document of the family, your family history. And so it's an oral document of the family history and specific to the sort of South African context and so on. And so, with me doing this research, and specifically looking at my family name, Kenya, which means light. It my quest for that had a lot to do with the fact that I had realized that our surnames are spelt in these three or four different ways. And so I wanted to know, which was the correct name, even though it meant the same thing, but you know, sort of thinking around the language aspect, you know, as having 11 languages that if it was spelled in a particular way, it was more associated with a certain language or a certain dialect. And so when so in my research with a family history, the family name and the research of the family name was quite central, but also the research of, well, not necessarily the research, but the recording my family, reciting this clan, or this praise poem, and the clan names and so and so Durruti, so director is, is quite central, in this industry search, because it sort of speaks very much to the South African history and also to the history of, again, what is regarded as an official document and what isn't regarded as an official document, you know, in thinking around, you know, the fact that large part of them, the names not being the same has a lot to do with black names being incorrectly recorded by Law officials. Well, there's sort of negligence that goes with the recording of black lives. And, and how direto is, is important in terms of how black families were recording their own history. And, and so the video piece that is kind of the band's been as a hyena is the title, which means the songs of light is basically speaking to that research, but also looking at it from the lens of this imaginary Lighthouse keypad because as I said that my surname is light. And so you know, and so over the years, I've really been thinking one more about how I'm trying to sort of keep the light. And then as I sort of discovered, through reading about female lighthouse keepers, from the 18th century, if I'm not mistaken from Europe, and from the US, I then, you know, sort of started doing research about whether we ever had South African female lighthouse, which we never had at any point. And so the film is about me sort of becoming this imaginary female lighthouse keeper, but also linking that to this ritual, this research about, you know, my family name, light. And so in the film, what you hear in the background, also is the sort of recital of the director which is my my family's claims aku song.

Jennifer Logue:

It is very moving, and I love hearing you talk about it, it's always wonderful to hear the artists perspective on their work, even though sometimes the viewer of the work may take it taken things a little bit differently, but I love that connection. How does it feel to be able to share your story with the world and to bring these questions to light to raise these ethical questions and I mean

Lebohang Kganye:

um, I mean, I think there's there's a it's it's not always a good feeling. I think it's also it's also it's a combination of sort of density that what you know how work gets read and, and understood or misunderstood. So there's there's all this there's also like that that also happens with work. And he also it's not, it's not aren't just the sort of good pilots, I think that that comes with people reading the work or this, there's also the sort of interpretations that come with with the work, which sometimes are not necessarily what the work is about 10 minutes and then can be quite exciting as well, because the different readings also are you sort of the work can exist outside of that, because it is about how someone else is experiencing the work.

Jennifer Logue:

What's next for you?

Lebohang Kganye:

Too many things. So there's currently, as I said that there's an exhibition that's opening. I cannot pronounce the museum's name,

Jennifer Logue:

I probably couldn't either.

Lebohang Kganye:

So there's there's that show that's coming up that I sort of just mentioned, in Cologne, it's in short, is the RJ M museum. And, and so it's a film that I've been working on for the last year with installation. So I'm quite excited about that work, specifically, and, and there's a show that I'll be part of at the Yale museum later in the year. I'm just trying to think there's a show at the shares and museum also, in the US. I mean, I hardly have many, I don't currently have many exhibitions coming up within the US, I think two or three this year, and also at the Chicago Art Institute of Chicago. And then the rest are very much in in Europe and different parts of Europe. So it's a it's extreme. It's an extremely busy, but exciting, mostly because it's, you know, different, really different works. And so I think that's the exciting part, that it's a year where it's so many different bodies of work being shown in different sort of context. And so they get to have many or fall within many different sort of discourses and conversations.

Jennifer Logue:

Very cool. And what advice do you have for aspiring artists out there?

Lebohang Kganye:

So I think it's important for art to young artists specifically to not respond to the market. I think that for me, that's been I think, even in contexts where I am entering an artist, I think that that's the one thing that I think outside of sort of. So there's one is the sort of business side and really structure side, which is important, as I said, the sort of administrative side that sort of comes with it, and to not neglect that and, but to is really to not make work, just work that because of response to market. So I think that that's what happens to a lot of artists, that they are making work because the work sells. So it's an easy sell, and they're just responding to that versus really making work, you know, because those are really two very different things.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, that's brilliant advice. I think that's something that artists of all kinds can embrace. Because it's so easy, especially in our world today with social media and like instant gratification of, you know, likes and all that stuff, to just make things that are true for you. So liberal hang, thank you so much for taking the time to appear on creative space. I absolutely love this conversation. And I'm excited to learn more about your next exhibit in Cologne.

Lebohang Kganye:

Thank you for the invitation. And I hope that also the listeners will get the catalog. I think it's it's finally available. And I think that's an important part of the exhibition and really understanding the context of the works that are currently at the challenge or to remember exhibition.

Jennifer Logue:

Wonderful. For more on lebohang Kanye visit Lebo hang kanye.co.za And thank you so much for tuning in and growing in creativity with us. I'd love to know what you thought of today's episode. What you found was interesting what you found most helpful. You can reach out to me on social media at Jennifer Logue or leave a review for creative space on Apple podcasts so more people can discover it. I appreciate you so much for being here in the beginning stages of this. My name is Jennifer Logue and thanks for listening to this episode of creative space. Until next time