Actor and Musician Calvin the II On Achieving Career Success in Multiple Mediums

On today’s episode of Creative Space, we have the pleasure of speaking with Calvin the II, aka Calvin Winbush,  a musician, actor and dear friend of mine with quite an inspiring journey. Originally from Detroit, he started playing music at a young age and followed that passion to intern at Atlantic Records where he learned the ins and outs of the music business, working on Lupe Fiasco’s Food & Liquor album. He eventually moved to Los Angeles, where his acting career took off. You may have seen Calvin playing guitar in the beginning of Childish Gambino’s iconic music video, “This is America,” or guest starring on the hit TV show Nashville.

We cover a lot of ground in this episode, especially given that Calvin is a talented actor, musician, and music producer. We learn about his upbringing in Detroit and how he got inspired to be an entertainer while still in high school. We learn how Calvin went from working in craft services on the set of shows like Lipstick Jungle to soon becoming a working actor himself. He even shares many of his secrets when it comes to the creative process as well as learning multiple instruments. 

For more on Calvin the II, visit: calvintheii.com.

To sign up for the weekly Creative Space newsletter, visit: eepurl.com/h8SJ9b.

To become a patron of the Creative Space Podcast, visit: https://bit.ly/3ECD2Kr.

Show Notes—

0:00—Intro

1:11— We go way back

2:19—Relearning how to be in contact with people post pandemic

4:20—Office culture and the creative process

5:30—Being a Navy Brat and life in Detroit

8:50—The secret to learning multiple instruments

11:53—From Guitar Hero to the real guitar 

12:25—Early musical inspirations

13:00—Remember getting CDs from Columbia House?

16:20—How acting and stand up made him a better musician

20:00—Not every song has to be about me

21:30—Calvin’s definition of creativity

24:15—Don’t create and edit at the same time

27:21—Why you’re never not creative

34:55—The art of creating musical moments

36:43—The moment Calvin decided to be a full-time artist

39:02—The impact of his high school music teacher

41:20—Why acting is so much easier to make a living at than music

43:00—From craft services to being a working actor

47:22—Find out quickly if you could be good at something

48:48—What I do is less than 1% of humans do 

49:40—Outro

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:11 We go way back
• 2:19 Relearning how to be in contact with people post pandemic
• 4:20 Office culture and the creative process
• 5:30 Being a Navy brat and life in Detroit
• 8:50 The secret to learning multiple instruments
• 11:53 From Guitar Hero to the real guitar
• 12:25 Early musical inspirations
• 13:00 Remember getting CDs from Columbia House?
• 16:20 How acting and stand up made him a better musician
• 20:00 Not every song has to be about me
• 21:30 Calvin’s definition of creativity
• 24:15 Don’t create and edit at the same time
• 27:21 Why you’re never not creative
• 34:55 The art of creating musical moments
• 36:43 The moment Calvin decided to be a full-time artist
• 39:02 The impact of his high school music teacher
• 41:20 Why acting is so much easier to make a living at than music
• 43:00 From craft services to being a working actor
• 47:22 Find out quickly if you could be good at something
• 48:48 What I do is less than 1% of humans do
• 49:40 Outro

Transcript

Jennifer Logue: 0:11

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Creative Space, a podcast where we explore, learn and grow in creativity together. I'm your host, jennifer Logue, and today we have the pleasure of speaking with Calvin II, aka Calvin Winbush, a musician yeah, actor, and dear friend of mine with quite an inspiring journey. Originally from Detroit, he started playing music at a young age and followed that passion to intern at Atlantic Records, where he learned the ins and outs of the music business working on Lupe Fiasco's Food and Liquor album. He eventually moved to Los Angeles where his acting career took off. You may have seen Calvin playing guitar in the beginning of Childish Gambino's iconic music video this Is America, or guest starring on the hit TV show Nashville. And today we're going to talk about Calvin's return to releasing music of his own with his upcoming release, the Black EP. Welcome to Creative Space, calvin.

Calvin the II: 1:12

Hey, thank you so much for having me. This is an honor and a pleasure. I really appreciate it.

Jennifer Logue: 1:16

Oh my gosh, it's my pleasure. We were talking about this before we started recording, but we go way back like to college, right.

Calvin the II: 1:27

Crazy, crazy, which is great because I mean that's one of the things is, like you know, keeping in contact with people is important. You know, thankfully we don't, I mean unfortunately we don't get to keep in contact with everybody, but if you find cool people, I tell people like look, don't think you just going to meet another cool person the next five minutes, like keep in contact. So I made sure to do that as best I could.

Jennifer Logue: 1:50

You're great at keeping in contact with people.

Calvin the II: 1:53

No, that's a lie, but thank you so much, I appreciate it. That is, I need to do way better.

Jennifer Logue: 1:59

Well, I mean cause I remember you know you mentioned sometimes to me, like how you keep in touch with people from Atlantic, because that's how we met.

Calvin the II: 2:06

Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely I try to. I would say the I'm like I'm relearning how to be in contact with people. I'll be honest, because, like after the quarantine and whatnot and having my first kid, like I had those both at the same time the quarantine and whatnot, and having my first kid, like I had those both at the same time so I am beyond comfortable with not hanging out with people and that is not a good thing. So I need to get back in the saddle and I realized that. So I'll say that much.

Jennifer Logue: 2:42

You are not the only one. And you know you have a beautiful family as an excuse for not keeping in contact with people as much as you used to? I'm like I have no excuse.

Calvin the II: 2:50

That's so funny.

Jennifer Logue: 2:51

No, the quarantine was a thing yo, it was a real thing.

Calvin the II: 2:54

It was like it was not necessarily easy to figure out how we're going to do it and what this looks like and you know. So I'm just glad that you know it's over for the most part, you know, and we're kind of back, but now it's like, oh okay, I actually like I'm out to literally go and do some open mics and just just to see people and talk to people and get more accustomed to seeing and talking to people in person, cause I'm not used to that at the moment and it's weird for me.

Jennifer Logue: 3:22

Yeah, no, yeah, no, it's. Uh, I think social anxiety has been on the rise, you know, um, but yeah, I mean we go back to like what was it early 2000s?

Calvin the II: 3:36

I don't know and no, it was cool. Like it's definitely. I like to remember all the cool people that I met and you know you did the ins and outs of the music industry and I was like, yeah, mostly the outs, mostly the outs, but no, it was great. It's like I'm so glad that I got to do that. Like you know, interning and then like working as an assistant and stuff is like really cool. I learned a lot and you know I also learned some things. I learned good things and bad things.

Calvin the II: 4:08

Like I saw great stuff happen and I saw not so great stuff happen to where I was like, oh OK, if I do my artist thing, I never want to do that, like you know.

Calvin the II: 4:17

Or if I do my artist thing, I do want to do that, like you know. So it was a great place to be at, to learn, to get closer, to see what you actually wanted to do. Like I definitely realized I didn't want to work in the office you know I'm not that I would never want to do it Like, say, next couple of things that I do come very successful and I have a nice 10 year plus run or whatever, then yeah, I would definitely be interested in like after that, maybe doing some sort of office job possibly, and to be able to be beneficial to the next generation of musicians. Yeah, I'll be, but right now, no, it was just. Whereas I appreciate the people that do the stuff in the office, there's a lot of politics that are just like kind of counterintuitive to the actual creative process and I was just like okay oh my gosh, that's so true no, seriously, you gotta do what you gotta do though yeah, it's a whole other balancing act.

Jennifer Logue: 5:11

I mean being in advertising. I mean we're not in an office now, we're remote, but um, there's still. You know, uh, managing relationships is such a big part of it on top of the creative process. It's this bureaucratic process to creativity. It's so different from being an artist, you know. But let's go way back to your early life. I want to know when did you first discover your love for music, calvin?

Calvin the II: 5:40

Technically, I've always loved music. I remember there's this video I need to find it. There's a video of me like, like just literally stepping on, like jumping up and down on a key on a piano that was in my grandmother's basement and whatnot. And I was doing that Like I've always just sang and everything and whatnot and was in all these choirs. But when I actually got to third grade because I'm a Navy brat, so we was traveling all over and what happened?

Calvin the II: 6:12

We moved to Detroit and I'm like a fish out of water because I had just been going to school with white people and suburbs and everything. And then I go to Detroit and it's like everybody is super black and crazy as hell and I just I feel like I ended up doing music just because it was something that was interesting. And they were like hey, we're gonna sign up people for the band, you, whoever wants to go down, whoever wants to be in it, go downstairs. And I was. I was interested in it, but you know, before then I didn't have any direct opportunity. So me, I wasn't like yo, I'm going down. And he did this basic sound test to see if, like you, were tone deaf or not, and there, no for it. He was like he played one note and then he played another, and then you had to say if the note was higher or lower, and everything and whatnot.

Calvin the II: 6:54

And if you got like three of those wrong, he's like all right, nah, this might not be your gift, but I guess I got enough right to where he was like, okay, cool, and um, then the instrument I think I I know I ended up being on a saxophone. I think I wanted to play something else, but they were like well, we got enough of those. So, and it's funny, I literally just did an audition today for a commercial where I'm literally playing saxophone and it's funny, it's just like wow, like that decision I made as a kid still positively affects my life to this day. And so now, from there, I started playing. I was horrible for a while.

Calvin the II: 7:29

And then I went to the next grade and my music teacher, miss Klein, who I always just shout out, she would play songs on the piano while we played our instruments. And I walked up to her and I was like, hey, I want to learn how to play piano. And she, just, I said it like I said it, like I was asking, hey, I want to learn how to play piano. And she, just, I said it like I said it, like I was asking her to borrow a piece of gum. I was like, oh yeah, because in my head it was just that simple.

Calvin the II: 7:50

I'm like, oh, yeah, can you teach me how to play piano? And she just looked at me. It was like, oh, she's like OK, well, can you go get this music book? It was like a John Thompson's piano book or whatever. And I went and got it and just I had a keyboard and I started. So she saw how motivated I was and was like okay. So then she started teaching me and after a certain point she was like hey, we got to get you like a teacher. Like you, you're kind of like really nice. Like I was like, oh bet. So then I was able to get a scholarship to go to this teacher, this crazy, this guy. All he done his whole life was play piano.

Jennifer Logue: 8:25

Like.

Calvin the II: 8:25

Homer Schwartz, all he did. He came straight from Europe straight to New York and just started teaching and playing piano and whatnot and did well, pretty well, and so he was teaching me and everything and he was strict, but he was really cool and I just got really good and after those two first instruments I learned it. Like OK, if you want to learn it and I tell this to everybody they're like well, how do you play? Why do you, how do you know how to play five instruments? And I was like, well, after I learned the first two, I figured out the secret. Like just expect to not be great for the first three to six months and you'll be amazing.

Calvin the II: 8:59

Wow, like it's like people's expectations of being good instantly is, like you know, just the thing that keeps them from like, no, you should suck. Everybody sucked when they first started. Like I'm sorry, like you know, some people might have had a sharper learning curve or they might have had less distractions so that they were able to focus on it more. But everybody yeah, not everybody's going to be amazing or like prolific, but you could at least be good. You're going to get to a point where you're decent at an instrument.

Calvin the II: 9:28

Yeah, within a year. Absolutely, it just depends on you. One mitigating your expectations. Like you know, don't think that you should be amazing out the gate, no, you should suck. I remember there was this thing. It was like somebody was talking about Louis Armstrong and they were just like, really just romanticizing about him. They were like, oh, I just know that the first time that he played trumpet it just sounded beautiful and I was like that's bs. He sucked, like everybody. He probably couldn't get a sound out of it. It probably took him weeks. He just didn't have any distractions. He just want, he wanted to do it and so he was like, all right. Well, you know, once he got a little sound out, he was like ooh. To him it was like, oh, I'm going to be great. And he believed it and kept doing it and that was it. So when I played, when I started playing guitar, it was like man, I suck. And then it was like, oh, no.

Jennifer Logue: 10:13

Oh, guitar was hard, guitar was definitely challenging.

Calvin the II: 10:18

But when I actually learned it, now, looking at it, I'm like I understand why it's challenging, because I'm probably going to end up writing a book about how to play guitar for real because all the instructional books they give way too much theory and not enough like practical.

Calvin the II: 10:34

like really learn like six chords, bar chords or just you know the open chords. Learn if you learn just those and then start going back and learn how to go back and forth between the chords and then start putting in songs that you know to them, like there's a lot of songs that, believe it or Not, have like two chords.

Jennifer Logue: 10:54

So learn those. You gave me a tip for guitar years ago because I always had trouble with bar chords, because I didn't have enough hand strength, and you were like get a finger strengthener. Oh, yeah, because you had one of those. I'm like what is that that you're using? He's like oh, and I still have, and I use it like and now my left hand is stronger than my right and I write with my right hand.

Calvin the II: 11:14

But yeah, there you go, there you go, get it, get it no.

Jennifer Logue: 11:19

No, write that book?

Calvin the II: 11:21

Oh, seriously, no, yeah, because I just like I like writing stuff very practically, like, okay, what is the thing that you need? And really the thing that catches people fire is if they can actually play a song that they recognize and know. That's the thing that like helps a lot of people. So I'll say that like, hey, make sure that you, you know, like I'll get a list of songs that have like two chords or just sections of songs, and it's like once you could play those and you could hear it. Then you make the connection, because really for me, guitar got serious once.

Calvin the II: 11:49

I I had fun playing guitar hero. I had really fun playing. I was like, yo, this is fun. And then I was like, yo, I actually have a real guitar. I could just learn how to play that like, why don't I just learn? Like I was it was zz Top, sharp Dressed man, I was playing that on Guitar Hero, killing it. And I was like, yo, this is fun as hell, like. And I was like, oh, it's probably even more fun if I really play a guitar. And so I did, and I play guitar like no less than twice a week and everything. So, like, I'm always playing guitar, it's fun and it's not as hard as a lot of people think. So you know definitely.

Jennifer Logue: 12:25

So who inspired you in your early days?

Calvin the II: 12:29

Prince, a lot of Prince Not so much David Bowie, but I love him too and they're just really cool Prince. But Prince Michael Jackson, he inspired everybody. My parents were just huge Prince fans, so I heard a lot of Prince. Growing up, sade, you know the music your parents play have a lot to do with you, but my dad also, like, would listen to rock every now and then and I think everything changed me. I remember I was like in middle school or something, and this is when you remember not to date myself or nothing, but I remember that a Columbia house used to have those. You get 20 CDs.

Calvin the II: 13:03

Oh yeah, oh, I got in trouble with those, no you couldn't, because if you were under 18 and did it, they couldn't. They couldn't really hold it against you.

Jennifer Logue: 13:12

I got so many CDs.

Calvin the II: 13:15

Oh man, it's trash. They shouldn't have did that. But my dad, I remember my dad randomly got some CDs right and two of the CDs he had left an indelible impression in my brain and it was Beatles Anthology 3 and Old Dirty Bastard Return to the 36 Chambers, and I had both of those CDs on repeat. I don't know if you could kill a CD by listening too much, but I really loved both of those CDs. They were just so impactful to me.

Calvin the II: 13:47

I really understood the different chord changes that the Beatles introduced into the public sphere. Jazz did a lot as well, but jazz was still this outlier thing thing. It wasn't so much this mainstream, but a lot of the core changes that the Beatles introduced were not common at all. Like you couldn't, you weren't really allowed to do that and stuff.

Calvin the II: 14:12

And even just um, you know, even just being a singer, songwriter by itself, they like, they have to fight to learn how to, to be able to perform their own songs and whatnot, which is more commonplace now. But but it was artists and repertoire. Those were two separate departments. So they had to really fight to be able to do that. And this Old Dirty Bastard, with just his incredible style, he was just so off the wall. So I have these two extremes that were maybe driving me, one that was maybe more conservative than the other that was extremely liberal as far as ODB, like using samples, doing everything, rhyming, cussing everything and whatnot, and that had a lot to do with it. But of course, like you know, I don't think a lot of people shout around enough, missy Elliott.

Jennifer Logue: 14:59

Oh my gosh, what a talent.

Calvin the II: 15:01

It's so weird oh my goodness gracious.

Calvin the II: 15:03

She's like. She's like sliced bread. You're just so used to her. She had this 20 year reign on music to where we're just okay with her being there, but we didn't really understand like, oh yo, like she's not active right now and there's nobody that's really filling that gap of a missy. I think the closest we have is tiara whack maybe, but she's just not, you know, kicking off as much and everything she might need to just get a really good producer and team up and whatnot. Um, but you know, I would say missy a lot, uh, yeah, a lot of missy. Almost every single thing that missy touched I was a super fan of. So, yeah, no, those are. Those are definitely some of my major influences awesome.

Calvin the II: 15:51

I can hear that in your music too oh, amen, I'm glad where hold up who, who do you hear?

Jennifer Logue: 15:56

huh, no, all those influences. You say like, yeah, I mean, because I also love how you bring your instrument playing into your music too yeah, I really try.

Calvin the II: 16:07

Um, that's a, that's a thing. That's been a challenge. I won't say a challenge, but it's been like a. Uh, yeah, I'll say a challenge. That's work, because it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's like I do play instruments so I like having that in there. Um, but some I've also had to learn to like know, not everything needs to be me on stage with a guitar or me playing keys or something. It's like it depends on the song and it depends on the program. Like, most of my stuff does have a band orientation to it, but I don't have to be sitting there with a guitar all the time. That's not like an indication on if it's real or not.

Jennifer Logue: 16:40

Oh, my gosh for sure, because then you're able to focus on performing yeah, performing, interacting with the crowd like yes yeah, something else that really helped me as far as a musician is doing stand-up comedy.

Calvin the II: 16:50

I did stand-up comedy for like a year, um yeah, my stand-up coach no, I know it really helped.

Calvin the II: 16:57

Like you cannot, once you do stand-up for like a year, it is almost impossible to have stage fright. It's impossible as long as I have a microphone, and this has happened to me. If my instruments don't work, but I have a microphone, I can still entertain for a smooth half an hour. And it's happened to me to where I just had to keep the vibes up and everything going, keep people laughing, keep people entertained, because I'm just used to now just like talking and being off cuff Like it doesn't bother me at all. So that's something and I would have never. So it's funny because I got into acting and I didn't realize that acting was going to make me a better musician, but it absolutely did.

Jennifer Logue: 17:33

Oh, I hear that I only just started studying acting a few years ago and my songwriting like it's crazy, you're able to go to many different places.

Calvin the II: 17:44

It's like I was not as emotionally available as I thought I would be at all.

Jennifer Logue: 17:48

Yes.

Calvin the II: 17:50

There's places that I can't go Like, because the strength in acting is your ability to show vulnerability. Yes, I believe that's like. You know. It's like who can be the most vulnerable, but in like say, if it's rap, it sometimes it can be who is the most hardest person, but ultimately it's like the lines that have penetrated me have been the lines that have been like more truthful or more like whoa. Like you know, I love all rappers and everything, but the rappers that stand out to me, or the rappers I consider artists, are the ones that can show a moment of vulnerability and it'll just be a quick line or whatever.

Calvin the II: 18:26

I think 2 Chainz had this line and it was like I can't remember if it was like it was just like tattoos on my face or something.

Calvin the II: 18:38

It was like tattoos on my face, all this pain. I don't want to show it, and it was such a simple line. But I, but I was like dang, that's kind of vulnerable, that's like wow, it just it touched me in a different way because it was just like him saying like hey, I have a lot of pain and this that's one of the things that I use to cover up the pain, but a lot of people wouldn't. So I respected it for the fact that, like he was saying the thing that maybe other people can't even bring themselves to think and whatnot, but and to me that made it, that's elevated art, because anybody gets to say I'm the hardest person, I kill everybody, I sold all the drugs, but but can you tell me how like your relationship with your mom is? They're like nah, I don't really want to go there I don't know it depends on the song when I'm in the club.

Calvin the II: 19:18

of course, I don't really want to hear people just talking about their drama, but if I'm going to be a longtime fan of something, they have to be more than just I am the biggest, baddest person who ever breathed. I don't care because you're not really real. To me that's not an authentic human experience.

Jennifer Logue: 19:39

I forget who said it, but there's a quote music is the emotional life of most people.

Calvin the II: 19:46

Yeah, absolutely. When you listen, I'm able to say things that people think, but maybe don't have the emotional vocabulary to say that's basically it.

Jennifer Logue: 20:00

And I mean that's a service Like being an artist, is a service to the world, you know, like having a gift of being in touch with your emotions and having these mechanisms of expressing them.

Calvin the II: 20:13

No, absolutely. It's like not even, and that's like why, like you know, again, I'm so glad that I did acting, training and whatnot. Um, uh, that was something that I I thought I was good at but I got way better at after I actually got into acting. It was like man, this is okay, but yeah, this is what I feel on the outside. This is like the, the Calvin that I'm showing the world, but okay, the Calvin I'm showing me, and also like even just writing stuff. I realized that every song I write isn't necessarily you know about me. So it's like, or every song I write might not be for me. It might be like, if I think you know, especially being in New York as long as we were, if you see people on the train, I can conduct the whole story about that person.

Jennifer Logue: 21:00

Yes.

Calvin the II: 21:01

And, like you know, so I'll write something I'll be like and it doesn't fit Even if it's true for me. It doesn't fit my artistry at this moment and so I can give it to somebody else. I could be like this or like you know, but my thing is to create and just figure out where the best thing for the creativity to go. If it's for me like that was a weird thing, because for a while I thought that everything I wrote had to be for me.

Calvin the II: 21:22

And that is not true at all. It's not true.

Jennifer Logue: 21:27

So, on the subject of creativity, calvin, how would you define creativity?

Calvin the II: 21:33

I don't know what does Webster say Define creativity? I mean, I would say it's just like, yeah, creativity. I would say it's just like, yeah, creativity, pulling something out of I don't want to say out of nothing, because I believe that you know these thoughts and everything. Like somebody told me a little while ago, like you can't out imagine God, Like everything that you can even think of is like underneath what god has already thought of. You can't out imagine him. It's like impossible, it's not even he created a whole universe. So your, your three pound brain, can't out think, so you're pulling it from somewhere. It's kind of like, uh, the effective medium between the unseen and the seen. And I say the effective so I mean, well, now I don't want to get too deep in here and everything. But like there's a difference between create, because I create something just by thinking of it, but I make it when I transform those thoughts that intangible and then it goes into the tangible.

Jennifer Logue: 22:46

The actual production process.

Calvin the II: 22:47

The actual production and like, like say, if I had an idea for a chair, I created it in my head, but I didn't make it until it was like. Now I'm pulling it out of the intangible thought to the tangible chair that you now sit on.

Calvin the II: 23:04

And that's a choice that we make. Yeah, yeah, which is like interesting and whatnot. There's a whole I don't again, I don't go too deep with this, but that's, you know just imagination. Your imagination is so I would say. I don't want to say effective imagination, but I would just say the ability to imagine with boundaries and constraints for a particular result.

Calvin the II: 23:35

Yeah, because, like you know, there's going to be different types of creativity and whatnot, but depending on what you're trying to do, you need different types of creativity, but it's all going to come from the same place you sitting and meditating or thinking deeply about whatever and then letting your mind go off and stuff, and just like you know, for me, one of the biggest things that I've learned is creativity is like it's a muscle, so you have to exercise it. Creativity is like it's a muscle, so you have to exercise it, but also it's like the best thing I tell anybody who's trying to songwrite is the number one thing I tell people If you can get this songwriting, will be easy To think of your creativity like a hose, and when you turn a hose on maybe it's been there, it hasn't been active the first few seconds of the hose is going to be like dirty water or water that was just filled up there.

Jennifer Logue: 24:28

Yeah.

Calvin the II: 24:29

And then, after a while of the water running, now the clean stuff is coming out. So I tell people, don't create and edit at the same time. When you're creating, like, say, if I'm writing a song right now and I'm just like, okay, I need some lyrics and I maybe think about what I want it to be about, Any idea that comes to my brain, I'll write down Any yes, Any idea, because I'm clearing the hose, Creativity is going to be going in a whole loop and whatnot. So the first idea, the first couple of ones, I'm like, uh, that's cool, I don't really like it, but people don't write those down and then they get stuck and it's like no, if you write it down and can look at it, your brain subconsciously will tell you why you didn't like that one and what you actually want. So say it.

Calvin the II: 25:20

Like to give an example of this, say if I had three and this is just to get the point across say if I had three colors to choose from, right and I had to pick one. Say if I had white, black or red and it just had to be, for whatever reason, it had to be one of those three colors. Well, I could just if I just sit back and like white, black or red, white, black or red, your brain and your creativity starts getting activated when you make a choice. It's like, okay, well, what if I picked black? Then your brain is going to tell you well, you can pick black, but that might be too dark, so, or whatever constraint that you need for that particular project, and it'll start telling you the reasons why that might not work. It's like, okay, so maybe not black.

Calvin the II: 26:08

Now you're left with two choices white and red and like, okay, well, what if I picked white? And it's like, well, you can, but that might be a little too bright, just for instance. So now it's like just by making a choice, by actually selecting something or writing something down like, okay, black, your brain has to figure out why it will or will not work and so, but that, only that, that's internal subconscious calculation only happens when you write it down, when you make the choice like I'll actually insert the, the black ball bounces into the thing and it's like, uh, but it can't really be black because that's weird and everything. Okay, let's try a different color. Uh, the white ball bounces like, nah, I don't really like that. Uh, the red, oh, red, okay. But again it's like so it's kind of a I have a picture in my mind already.

Jennifer Logue: 27:01

Yeah.

Calvin the II: 27:02

It's like a whole process that you have to do. So, basically, when I'm writing something, because I'll tell you like this I don't, unless you're extremely tired or Extremely like traumatized or something or just going through a really bad time you're never not creative, like there's no, like you know, they say people have writer's block. Writer's block doesn't really exist. You're either tired or like getting in your own way. Getting in your own way, but you, you have ideas. Oh yeah, you just don't like your idea.

Jennifer Logue: 27:37

You don't like them thing is.

Calvin the II: 27:41

I know that those ideas that I'm getting are just in the holes and right behind them is going to be the good idea. I just write down the idea that I'm not too crazy about and I'm like, okay, I just put them as placeholders. And then, as I write out different parts of the song or whatever, then it's like, oh, I know what that should be now. But I don't get to that point If I stop and just say like, oh, I have writer's block. No, you don't. You have ideas. You just don't like the ideas that you have in the moment. But those ideas are going to lead you to the thing that you do like. So it's really just having like trust and faith in that.

Jennifer Logue: 28:16

The trust and faith are so important.

Calvin the II: 28:18

No, seriously, just know that like hey, I am a writer, I'm going to. This is a muscle, so the more I exercise it, the better I'm going to get, the better I get the you know better songs that I'm going to have. Like, it got to a certain point in my songwriting when I was like I felt the same way about the stuff that I wrote as I felt when I like heard other people's stuff and I was like, oh wow, like the same feeling that I got when I would listen to somebody do it.

Calvin the II: 28:46

It's I got when I would listen to somebody do, it's like yo, I'm getting that from me. I was like that's awesome, okay, but that only happened with it, like I think I my process of it took me longer to get good at songwriting than anybody I know, and I hate it, but it's like it's also something to where I'm very confident in my songwriting. Even if I write something I know it's not the best thing ever, I'm still I'm still good.

Jennifer Logue: 29:06

What's your process when you're writing songs now, because you're a producer too. Do you start with the words? Everyone's different. Does it depend on the song?

Calvin the II: 29:19

Yeah, yeah, it depends on the song. I get ideas from everywhere. It depends on the song. I get ideas from everywhere. I think that sometimes it might be the song Black that I released. I'll use stuff that I have out and everything Black.

Calvin the II: 29:35

There was actually a TikTok trend that was going on. Where it was this song or whatever. People were in a red door and I remember the first two chords of that hit and it just developed into this whole idea in my brain. When I heard the two chords I can't remember what the song was or whatever, but it was like. And then from there my brain did the math. It was like, oh, like, and I was like, oh, that's kind of nice. And so I went to the keyboard and went instantly. It was like okay, and it became this thing and whatnot.

Calvin the II: 30:14

And I think as I was messing around with it, like lyrics just came to my head because I was working with a company they're a really big company, so I don't want to say their name, but I was working with this company and they were like hey, we need songs about this. And so I started bouncing around ideas with that in my head and it was like I got to. I'm a black man with a black voice. I was like, okay, that's kind of nice and stuff, and so it was just all kind of came together at the same time but this was kind of like pretty quick, but that is different, like the song that's released War. Um, so, but that is different, like the song that's released war. Uh, I was at the producer oat milks house or studio or whatever and um, great name, love that.

Calvin the II: 30:53

Yeah, right, right. And he was uh. He was, um, it's oat milk with a Q at the end. It's cute, uh, but yeah, right. So he was mixing some stuff and everything. This was going through tracks and was like, oh, what do you think about this? And he was like I don't really necessarily know about this one track and everything, but you know, if you like it, you could do something to it. And I heard I was like yo.

Calvin the II: 31:12

So when I'm in that situation, when somebody's giving me tracks, I usually, whatever my brain starts, whenever I can hear lyrics, almost instantly, I'll go with that. Okay, because that's like you know, even if those lyrics aren't the best lyrics, it's like if that beat is pulling something out of me, then I'm gonna follow that. Yes, the other beat might not be as good, but it's like, oh well, this one beat might be pulling something out of me that the other one isn't. Not that it could be better, whatever, but it's like I kind of let my inner knower like decide, okay, what am I gonna write to? It's like, well, I'm getting a lot of lyrics on this and everything. Or like my brain is already constructing a verse, a pre-chorus, a hook, a bridge and everything like maybe let me go with that one because that's going to be the road to least resistance and everything.

Calvin the II: 32:01

And so you feel called yeah, I'm able to, like, feel that and everything, and that feeling if I'm able to really knowing yourself and knowing, knowing how it feels on the creative side and also how it's going to feel when you perform it like live performance to me helped me so much as a songwriter because it helped me to understand, like, ok, this is how I feel when I'm writing this and this is how a crowd is responding.

Calvin the II: 32:27

This is how I feel when I'm writing this and this is how a crowd is responding yes, okay, great. So if you're able to bridge that gap, if you're able to know and understand what a audience reaction is going to be to what you're doing and your, your accuracy and being able to predict how people are going to respond to something is what gives you longevity. Because it's like that's maybe Drake's biggest fame. The claim you know name the claim or whatever the expression is is that he has been able to more accurately predict how people are going to respond to different things he does better than most people. So, like, if I do this, they're going to do that. Like you know, I remember that whole thing he was doing to the little dance for cha-cha or whatever cha-cha slide or whatever.

Jennifer Logue: 33:14

Oh yeah.

Calvin the II: 33:15

And it was like everybody was making a meme. Do you think that was an accident?

Jennifer Logue: 33:20

No.

Calvin the II: 33:21

I think he's very calculated and he happens to be extremely well calculated.

Jennifer Logue: 33:26

he's very calculated and he happens to be extremely well calculated so. And forward thinking. You know, think ahead to see where things, something could go.

Calvin the II: 33:33

Yeah.

Jennifer Logue: 33:33

No, there's a song that I have that.

Calvin the II: 33:35

I play live and everything, and it was like, as I was thinking of the song, I was like yo and you could see, I could see it in my head. I was like yo, if I do this, the crowd is going to do this. And every time I perform the song and whatnot, it happens exactly like that. And I only got that after performing a lot and seeing how people respond to different moments, like learning, call and response and how people respond to that and everything. Because you know you're dealing with humans. Like I talk about relationships, a bunch with people and whatnot, and I always say hey, at a certain point you got like, if I'm talking to a dog, and I know that it's a dog, if I throw a bone, nine times out of 10, the dog going to chase after the bone. So you have to know the animal that you're dealing with and you can more than likely predict what you're going to get from it. Or what it does. Now trying to make a dog not chase after a bone. You can from it, or what it does now trying to make a dog not chase after a bone. You can do that. But you could also just like realize what is that dog's nature and deal with it and whatnot, and understand it and like, respect it and deal with it. If you want to not deal with it, so I say that bring up that random scenario to say that, like you know, if you you have to know how humans respond to different things and have an understanding of like oh, when they hear this, you know this is how they're going to react because, like most people, there's ways that different things you can do to get people to have a reaction to your music on the first listen.

Calvin the II: 34:59

Like 2 Chainz is really good at this. Every 2 Chainz song that's been a hit has like four things in common. He has, or even if he's a feature, he doesn't even have to be the most lyrical person, but, and if he's on song with other people, there is a moment in his verse that will stand out and be very memorable. It is a takeaway. He leaves you with something that you could be oh. That's that one song where he said you know, all I want for my birthday is a big booty. I was like that's it's so you remember him.

Calvin the II: 35:32

Exactly, it's memorable. It's a moment. You know, kanye said that when he knew he made it as an artist, when he had that line and it doesn't even make sense, it doesn't even like make sense. But again, he had an accurate depiction of how people respond to different words and sounds and he was like ooh, he's like. When I wrote the line I got a light-skinned friend, look like Michael Jackson. Got a dark-skinned friend, look like Michael Jackson. He was like, oh, I knew because he could see in his head people are going to respond like crazy. This line it doesn't even make sense. It's not like this super lyrical thing, but every time he performed that song people knew that part yeah they would chant and that it was a takeaway, it was something that people could make their own.

Calvin the II: 36:17

And so I think about different elements like that. Like am I leaving people with songs, with moments in my songs where they can like take home and everything? Not just it's not just getting up and just saying what you think. There is an art, it's definitely an art form. You got to have moments and everything you got to end it. You know, because I started off as a producer, I was making tracks and everything, um, and I didn't even say about that.

Jennifer Logue: 36:41

I'll get into that a little bit, but you've done so much, calvin, and I want to ask you is like when did you know you wanted to be an artist full-time, like um, because you've been at this forever. You were acting in new york yeah, that's when I started I would say okay.

Calvin the II: 36:58

So I knew I wanted to be in entertainment in 11th grade. I can't remember exactly what happened, but I was like, oh, I want to do entertainment. It was just like, okay, oh, I want to do entertainment. It was just like, ok, that's what I want to do, because I was in the marching band. Now, the marching band in my high school was so weird and I have to remember that a lot of people when they talk about marching bands it's like a bunch of nerds. They got together and they got bullied and stuff. You would get beat up by the members of my marching band before anybody in the school. So it was like one it's in Detroit.

Calvin the II: 37:34

Two, we're holding large blunt objects. So I dare you. First of all, I'm holding a large piece of metal, so come get it. If you want it, come and get it. But thirdly, not everybody in the band was there because they had amazing grades. I wasn't a really good high school, but some people got in or they were able to stay because they were really good at playing. So it's kind of a scholarship thing. So they were really rough and our instructor was extremely rough and she know, bless her heart, miss sharon allen, I always give her kudos because I mean she would. She, I don't want to tell the business, but she would like really get into it with kids. She would. I mean, man, it was a thing, whatnot, and um like whiplash style man, okay, so I'm in whiplash when I'm in the movie Whiplash.

Calvin the II: 38:25

When I booked it, I literally put up a thing like yo, I literally tagged her in it on Facebook. I just want to shout out, miss Sharon Allen, because I just booked this role and all I was doing the whole time was thinking about her. So I saw Whiplash. I was like, oh, that's nothing. This guy was nice. That was nice compared to her. She was not a nice one was nice compared to her. She was not a nice one.

Calvin the II: 38:49

But we also got to see the results of her work and it's like we got it. I had to get up at five and six am, yeah, but we would win. Yeah, yell at us. We would have to do laps in the rain, like it was horrible, but then we would go and win. And so it was like, oh well, I see now, and so one of that.

Calvin the II: 39:06

And so that's actually how me and a lot of other people got into songwriting. Because her rule was hey, if you want to perform songs that are on the radio, you guys have to write them out. And so it was like, if we wanted anything, that was cool. And I remember I wrote out two songs. One was Try Again by Aaliyah, and the other was this Janet Janis song with Q-tip, like if we wanted anything. That was cool. And I remember I wrote out two songs. One was try again by alia and the other was um, it's jenna, jenna's song with q-tip. Um, don't know what you got till it's gone, or whatever with the johnny metro sample. So I wrote those out and after I did I was like well, hold up, a song is just three sections and two of them repeat. And I got to see it in its most basic form. It was was like okay, it's three sections and two of those sections repeat. So I was like that's all, that's it. So you just got to write. If you write three things, you've basically written a song.

Jennifer Logue: 39:56

Yeah, I was like that's dumb as hell.

Calvin the II: 39:58

So I was like, oh, let me try to do this. Like once it became that basic to me cause I had to write it. I mean it was. It's insane I'm talking about score paper with every instrument, then in each individual instrument on a page is insane. It's too much um, and like the first, second and third part of that and it's crazy um. But you know this, before the internet was popping like that, so I had time, so I wrote all that stuff out and everything. Then I started making beats and started putting stuff together because I was like, oh, I only need to write three things and then loop two of them. So bad, and for the most part that's like what it's kind of been and everything. So you know I would again I'm just shouting around because that's one of the reasons I like actually got into being an artist.

Calvin the II: 40:37

But so, yeah, I can't remember exactly what happened in 11th grade or why I was like, oh, I just want to be an artist. What happened in 11th grade? Or why I was like, oh, I just want to be an artist, but I don't know. I think maybe some people came to our school and there's like a really famous jazz guitarist that went to our school and I think he came back and spoke and I was just like, oh, I'll be like an entertainer. And then I kept it really open. I was like I want to be in entertainment.

Jennifer Logue: 40:59

I think that's what I want to do so you didn't confine it to acting or, sorry, to music was acting, even on your radar.

Calvin the II: 41:10

At that point I wanted to act but I never planned on acting until I was like 60 something. Oh, I never was like, oh, yeah, I'm about to act and blah, blah, blah. I mean I kind of wish I would have because, like I tell people, acting is so much easier than music, my god. First of all, like this example, I get everybody. If I was off the streets a person off the streets, no experience, no, nothing. And they were like hey, um, you know, I, uh, um, I want to get into music. No experience, um, well, no, let me do acting first. If, basically, if somebody came in no experience, never acted, it was like, hey, I want to, you want to start working as an actor? They could literally, if they live in New York, california, they could literally have a check in their hand within two weeks and would be in the positive already. Yes, you could literally start making money, zero experience, music. If you make a positive profit, even in the first two years, you should write a book.

Calvin the II: 42:12

You should write a book If you make positive money as a record, I'll say recording artist, recording artist, yeah, yeah, you could just be a busker, but even then you got to learn how to sing, you got to learn how to play, you got to get a permit and everything. But even that still takes time and whatnot. But acting is like two weeks You're good uncle, or your mom or dad or you know godfather is russell simmers or something. Then maybe, maybe, maybe you'll have a leg up, but other than that, no, you're gonna. You're gonna struggle. For years, everybody making money was doing it like 10 years before they got paid for real.

Jennifer Logue: 42:58

So what sparked the acting stuff when you were in new york, um so I remember when you started yeah, no, my first job and everything.

Calvin the II: 43:05

And this is like shout out to jen. This is why it's good to have good friends. So I was um two of my buddies I met while interning in uh, you know, new york and everything like. I'll never say I'm self-made because I got two. I never understood why people said that I'm like so nobody helped you, even your mom, your mom didn't know exactly nobody.

Jennifer Logue: 43:22

Nobody helped you just none of us are self-made.

Calvin the II: 43:24

Self-made is an illusion. I wouldn't even want to be self-made. If I'm self-driven, maybe, but I can't even say that People have motivated me when I wasn't driven.

Jennifer Logue: 43:35

But then God made us too. No, seriously.

Calvin the II: 43:41

Absolutely so. I was actually working in a craft service company on a set and I remember the first two weeks of that was the awesome host here. Let me sleep on her couch for two weeks while I was getting my money up and everything. Oh, that was fun, it was.

Jennifer Logue: 43:55

Your turkey chili. I still think it was so good, it was amazing.

Calvin the II: 44:01

My chili is like world renowned at this point, and that was the first time making the turkey version of it, but no, so I was on set doing craft service, which people don't know. It's like I hand out snacks, coffee and gum on set and I was working on this one show lipstick jungle and they were cool and everything. Uh, and I remember like everything. All the cards just were like. It was like a clear layout, like hey, you might want to try this out. Like I'm set, I'm the lowest person on the totem pole on that set and like I become buddies with like Brooke Shields because I just keep bumping into her and we just keep having conversations. And then the director and producers name is uh, he's like from Detroit and the city that I just graduated college from at the time. Wow. And then somebody else on set like he had an acting school and he was like a production assistant or production coordinator and he kept bringing up like yo, man, you should maybe think about acting. You're pretty funny, why don't you get into acting? I was like, nah, I'm good, bro, I'm doing music. He's like man, I think you should do it. And this was going, went on for like three months and eventually he was like yo, okay, what, why don't you come and audit the class? And I was like, does this guy need an accountant? Like I guess I can moonlight, get some extra bread, just you know, rearranging his books. And he laughed and was like, nah, that means you know, I need you to. You can come in and like, basically take the class. You could watch the class and see if you want to actually join it. And I was like, okay, for free, cool, I can afford that. So I went and everybody was really good and my thing was like well, damn, I literally said this in my head. I was like if I could learn to act half as good as the people in this class, I could make some money, because these people to me they were very talented. Shout out to the.

Calvin the II: 45:47

He wasn't the guy that was promoting the class, wasn't the teacher. The teacher was Ward Nixon, who's still in New York and still amazing. I still love him and next time I go to New York I need to link up with him. But so Ward was really great and I ended up taking the class for like two semesters, which were like I think they had like three semesters, and I took the class like twice, and during the second one I had like a real breakthrough, like it was a moment to where it was like Calvin left the building, I wasn't there, no more Stuff was going on. I was watching with the audience, I was watching with them and everything and I was like man, what is this guy about to do? This is crazy. It was like a whole out the best performance ever. He'd be like okay, I got some notes for you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Notes notes notes.

Calvin the II: 46:32

Whatever and I'd be like dang, he got notes. He did really well On that day when I had that really breakthrough moment and stuff. He just looked at me and in front of the whole class, he's like Calvin, I don't have any notes for you today.

Jennifer Logue: 47:03

Wow.

Calvin the II: 47:04

That'll be it, then.

Calvin the II: 47:05

Just keep doing it and I was like, oh damn, I might be good at this. Well damn, I done messed around and I might be okay. I might be okay. So from there I took it. You know, I took it more, not more, seriously, like I wasn't taking it seriously, but I didn't know if I was good before then and like, like this is the thing. I don't like to invest a lot of time and stuff that, like, I like to find out real good. I like to put a real effort forth and find out if I'm good at something or it can be great, because I don't like to waste my time like a little secret.

Calvin the II: 47:35

I tried to be good at basketball my whole life. I really tried. Like, when people see me not be good at basketball, I let them know like yo, I tried. Like I was watching videos, reading books, doing drills by myself. I'd be in the gym. I really tried. My body just did not respond to being good at basketball, for whatever reason. And so I was like, ok, you know, but I really tried.

Calvin the II: 47:57

And so when this, it just so happens that everything, everything connected and it was like, ok, I could be good at this.

Calvin the II: 48:06

Everything connected and it was like, okay, I could be good at this and then I started acting and people started paying me and once I got a little bit established, I'll say there was maybe like a one to three year, like you know, just getting established period.

Calvin the II: 48:16

And then after that it was like, oh, people will pay me like a lot and it's like you know, between voiceover, commercial acting, television acting and just any other thing that comes up and whatnot, like acting has been like the number one breadwinner of my life and stuff Like I get paid in music now. But let me tell you, when acting started paying me, my God, it was wholly different. It was so different. So I'm extremely thankful because it's not, it's not, it's not super common. Like what I do is like what less than one percent of humans who ever lived get to do. Like I work, and I work in acting like and I release music and I'm in you know, I've been in some like Oscar winning, you know productions where people have like literally J jk simmons was five feet from me when he won an oscar wow that's insane to me.

Calvin the II: 49:11

So like getting to be a part of that like I'm in that childish gambino thing has been viewed by over like maybe five billion people. At a certain point I was like yo. A lot of people on this earth right now have seen me, whether they knew it was me or not. It actually was crazy to me. I was on this commercial for this thing, the other a few weeks ago and whatnot, and I was like yo. A lot of people have seen me and it just really humbled me. It wasn't even like a thing of like, oh, I'm the best, it's like no, I'm thankful, Like cause it didn't have to be the case necessarily. That being said, thank you so much.

Jennifer Logue: 49:42

Oh, thank you, Calvin. Now it's time for my outro.

Calvin the II: 49:45

Yeah, let me get that outro.

Jennifer Logue: 49:46

Oh, my gosh For more on Calvin. Visit calvin2ndcom and follow him on social media at Calvin II, and thank you so much for tuning in and growing in creativity with us. I'd love to know what you thought of today's episode. You can reach out to me on social media at Jennifer Loge, or leave a review for Creative Space on Apple Podcasts so more people can discover it. I appreciate you so much for being here in the beginning stages of this. My name is Jennifer Loge and thanks for listening to this episode of Creative Space. Until next time, thank you.