Director Christopher Macken On Making Art That’s Personal and Raising Awareness About OCD

On today’s episode of Creative Space, we have the pleasure of chatting with Christopher Macken, an award-winning writer-director, based in Los Angeles. Having graduated from Emerson College in 2015, Christopher broke into the industry assisting actor-writer Charlie Day on projects like Fist Fight, Pacific Rim: Uprising and Cool Kids. This year, Christopher served as a Co-Producer on Fool’s Paradise, Day’s feature film debut starring Day, Ken Jeong, Kate Beckinsale, and many others. Apart from his work with Day, Christopher recently released his own short film that he directed and wrote, For the Safety of Theo, which is currently in the festival circuit. He also co-created The Gamer and the Mouth, a video game/stand-up comedy show, releasing in Cinemark theaters Oct 7th.

We cover so much ground in this episode, including how Christopher worked his way up from actor’s assistant to Associate Producer to Co-Producer on Day’s feature film debut. We also talk about the importance of getting personal with the art we create. As an example, Christopher’s latest short film, For the Safety of Theo, raises awareness about OCD and sexual intimacy, a topic that most are too scared to talk about. As someone living with OCD, Christopher hopes to raise awareness through the film as well as to help others living with OCD know that they’re not alone.

Finally, we also talk about the origin story behind, The Gamer and the Mouth, which stars Youtuber Jacksepticeye and SNL’s Chris Redd.

For more on Christopher Macken, visit: directorchrismacken.com.

To sign up for the weekly Creative Space newsletter, visit: eepurl.com/h8SJ9b.

SHOW NOTES:

0:00—Introduction

2:00—The writer’s strike and life in LA

3:50—Growing up in Massachusetts

6:58—The influence of Kevin Smith, Todd Phillips and Lonely Island

9:27—What writers can learn from standup comedy

11:31—Deciding to become a film director

15:40—Chris’ definition of creativity

19:11—The role of a film producer

22:30—Have a good attitude and be of service to the project. 

25:13—How Chris initially connected with Charlie Day

35:09—It’s not overnight success, it’s a marathon. 

36:03—Working as a Co-Producer on ‘Fool’s Paradise’

37:56—J. Todd Anderson and storyboarding

44:34—‘For the Safety of Theo’ and raising awareness about OCD

49:45—The importance of making art that’s personal

52:05—”I can help people through my art.”

58:00—What’s next for ‘For the Safety of Theo’

1:00:59—What is ’The Gamer and the Mouth?’

1:03:49—Partnering with Jacksepticeye and SNL’s Chris Redd

1:06:00—What’s next for Chris? 

Transcript

Jennifer Logue: 0:10

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Creative Space, a podcast where we explore, learn and grow in creativity together. I'm your host, jennifer Loge, and today we have the pleasure of chatting with Christopher MacKinn, an award-winning writer-director based in Los Angeles. Having graduated from Emerson College in 2015, christopher broke into the industry assisting actor-writer Charlie Day on projects like First Fight, pacific Rim, uprising and Cool Kids. This year, christopher served as a co-producer on Fool's Paradise, day's feature film debut, starring Day, ken Jeong, kate Beckinsale and many others. Apart from his work with Day, christopher recently released his own short film that he directed and wrote for the Safety of Theo, which is currently in the festival circuit. He also co-created the Gamer and the Mouth, a video game stand-up comedy show releasing in cinema theaters October 7th. Welcome to Creative Space, christopher.

Christopher Macken: 1:20

It's an honor to be on the show. Oh my gosh, Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's so weird looking someone right in the eyes while they say all that stuff about you. That was a bizarre experience. I liked it.

Jennifer Logue: 1:32

Oh my gosh. Welcome to the podcast world, right.

Christopher Macken: 1:37

Yeah, I think it's my first one, to be honest, thank you.

Jennifer Logue: 1:41

I'm even doubly honored now.

Christopher Macken: 1:45

Yeah, I think I'm usually scared of podcasts. I'm going to try and be very slow and particular with my words.

Jennifer Logue: 1:53

Oh, you know, we can always edit too, you know.

Christopher Macken: 1:55

That's true.

Jennifer Logue: 1:56

I need lots of editing. Oh yeah, you don't, I do. But how's life in Los Angeles?

Christopher Macken: 2:04

Life is good. You know we're getting progress on this writer strike, which is exciting, and it's been kind of bleak here because the work has been pretty dried up and the spirits have been low. But you're starting to kind of feel people come around now and have a little more hope. But yeah, it's weird not to like compare it to the, you know, quarantine, but it started feeling like that after a while. You know like no work and people are being frugal with their money and staying in and like it's kind of, yeah, like a forced time to stay inside. So it kind of is bringing up that trauma of the pandemic a little bit, at least for me.

Jennifer Logue: 2:40

Oh my gosh. I'm sure that's true for a lot of creatives out there.

Christopher Macken: 2:43

Yeah.

Jennifer Logue: 2:45

So what do you do, like, is there anything you can work on during these strikes? Like what, what does someone like you do in this position who's a writer director? Do you work on your own stuff, like, do you write on your own?

Christopher Macken: 2:58

Like, yeah, I mean I'll continue on my personal projects. You know, writing the scripts I'm working on, editing the projects I'm working on but in terms of, like, finances, yeah, it's, the jobs look different, more commercial work or branded work. I'm finding myself picking up the camera again and shooting some stuff here and there, doing some videographer jobs. So it's fun, it's definitely fun. But yeah, now's the time to hustle to pay the bills, that's for sure.

Jennifer Logue: 3:26

Okay, but you know there's some, there's hope in the site in site, there's some light on the horizon coming through.

Christopher Macken: 3:34

Yeah, very excited to get back to it, cool.

Jennifer Logue: 3:40

Well, so on creative space, we like to go way back to the beginning of a creative journey, because it's just interesting to see how the creative journey unfolds in someone's life. Where did you grow up and what was your childhood like?

Christopher Macken: 3:57

Oh, getting deep here. Okay, I'm from Massachusetts, western Massachusetts, kind of like a kind of farmy like an hour and a half west of Boston. My childhood was. It was interesting, you know. It was good. It had high highs, low lows. I was lucky enough to have parents who were very supportive of you know my creative endeavors and trying new things. But yeah, growing up in kind of like a small, very conservative town, I'm very surprised I was able to find a career in the arts, because I feel like, yeah, it wasn't really the town and the school system and everything it wasn't their priority. So I'm shocked that I was able to find a career in film.

Jennifer Logue: 4:52

Did you always want to be a filmmaker? Was that like your first creative pursuit?

Christopher Macken: 4:57

Actually, yes, wow, it definitely started with writing short stories and I don't know like first, second, third grade, so I knew I wanted to be like a writer or storyteller. But, yeah, once I had a buddy who his dad purchased a Sony handicam you know camcorder and we started shooting our own little videos and finding free ways to edit on the computer and putting stories together like that. That's when I was like, okay, I can do this, this is great. And you know, I'm 30 now. And so I kind of came up at a time where YouTube started.

Christopher Macken: 5:34

Yeah, so like starting to see that there were ways where you can start and have a career on your own, which was really validating, because I feel like, way before that it was like, you know, you got to have family or know someone in the industry and you know cameras were super expensive, and now it's like, oh, something cheap that you can have and oh, my God, it's even crazier today.

Christopher Macken: 5:56

I mean, I started to go yeah, it's insane, I went off on this rant but, like I remember, I had finally gotten a camera for my like 13th birthday and I shot all this stuff and then I couldn't even like edit it because we needed to like have a good enough computer, which our family and I didn't have. We needed to have like a cassette reader, to like put the mini DV tape into you know, write it onto the computer and say we didn't have any of this stuff. And now it's like you just shoot on your phone and it's a gorgeous image and you can even edit on the phone. It's wild. Yeah, there's no excuse for not just doing it now.

Jennifer Logue: 6:31

It's incredible. Yeah, I'm so impressed by some of the work that I see, and then I see it's shot on an iPhone. I'm like what?

Christopher Macken: 6:38

Wow, yeah, it's wild.

Jennifer Logue: 6:40

So, yeah, so what we have today is nuts.

Christopher Macken: 6:45

But yeah, that pretty much sums it up, small farm town and yeah, I had to look for ways to stay busy and have fun and that was with a camera.

Jennifer Logue: 6:56

Who are your big inspirations in those early years?

Christopher Macken: 7:00

Oh, let me think so I had an older brother who was nine years older than me, so as a young kid I was getting introduced to stuff I probably shouldn't have been shown movie wise. And you know, I feel like I had a mature taste really early on. Like I was introduced to like I don't know, like the Kevin Smiths of the world. I think I was introduced to a lot of comedies, like a lot of like like Todd Phillips being one of my favorite directors currently like road trip and like all these like early, you know, coming of age or like teen comedies. So I got to watch those a lot when I was younger. But I think one of the main inspirations was actually like Lonely Island, the you know the SNL like comedy troupe from seasons ago.

Jennifer Logue: 7:49

Yes, yes.

Christopher Macken: 7:52

I was on SNL but they had, like they made like a special. It might have been a TV pilot, I actually don't know too much about it, but it was called awesome town and it was just like this I don't know hour long special of these comedy skits and you know, here in their story of how they, you know, made it themselves and whatnot. And I remember like my buddy and I, we, when we got his dad's camera, we were like we called ourselves radicalville, which was just like awesome town, but we were like this is going to be our thing, and so they were a huge inspiration. So yeah, like I'd say, mostly like comedy back in the day was a great escape and a great inspiration.

Jennifer Logue: 8:31

Awesome. Who would you say, are your inspirations? Now, how's it evolved?

Christopher Macken: 8:36

Yeah Well, I mean I mentioned Todd Phillips. I love his career and like how that's evolved, you know, going from like road trip or like obscure you know documentary on Gigi Allen to like making the hangover movies, which is one of my favorite movies ever. It's the perfect movie. Yes, I can now do a Joker, like he just did the Joker movie, and I'm like, oh, this guy can do it all it's. He's a huge inspiration. Sorry, were you going to say something.

Christopher Macken: 9:05

Talk about versatility, yeah, there are no rules, yeah, and it just proves how hard comedy is to do. There's such a stigma of when you watch a goofy movie you're like I don't know. I feel like people assume that it was just like not that much effort went into it. But in a sense, to get those jokes to work, it has to be cut a certain way, written a certain way, acted a certain way. Timing is really taken into account.

Jennifer Logue: 9:35

Yeah, I feel like something that I'd like to explore as a writer is stand-up comedy, just the art of it. I really don't know how it works and I think if you want to be a better writer, even if you don't plan on being a stand-up comic, I feel like there's so much you can learn from stand-up comics and how they write those jokes and the art of the joke, because it's hard, they make it look easy, but yeah, it's like knowing your audience and pacing and having jokes that have a beginning, middle end or a setup and a punchline.

Christopher Macken: 10:14

And it's the same with scripts, in a sense, where it's cutting out all the fluff, getting to the point so your film can have that setup and that punchline. There are a lot of parallels with stand-up comedy. Personally, I love stand-up comics journey. It's not something I would ever want to do but yeah, I love that world.

Jennifer Logue: 10:36

Yes, yes, I'm becoming more fascinated by it the more interviews that I do. Every time I interview a comic, I'm like, oh wow, your life, this is so interesting. Yeah, it's a grind. It's a lifelong grind, for sure.

Christopher Macken: 10:53

It really is. And it's so much, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, continue. I was going to say it's so much of evolving, too, as an artist, because you can go up with material that you think is going to kill. But it isn't until you realize who you are as a person and pulling from real-life experience that it's really going to actually resonate. So it's cool to see that journey, because it's the same in all art. It's finding that purpose within yourself versus what you just think is funny or what you think people would like. It's like actually having something with complexity and layers to it.

Jennifer Logue: 11:31

That comes from you living and we'll talk about this later but getting personal with your art can be so scary, but that's what really hits. Yeah, what, would you say, made you want to become a director? It was like they're like a defining moment for you where you're like this is what I want to do. You talked about it a little bit, but then you went to film school. You made that decision.

Christopher Macken: 12:04

Yeah.

Christopher Macken: 12:04

So I feel like, yeah, a little survival tactic in my life, especially as a child, was I was very controlling, which doesn't quite serve you all the time in your personal life, but as a director it was a great tool to have and have mastered.

Christopher Macken: 12:24

But, yeah, I feel like a lot of people use the term director as an umbrella for all these things and they don't really know what exactly a director does. And going to film school, I was like I want to be a filmmaker, I want to be a director, and 99% of the kids who were my classmates also said the same thing. Until we got to play with lighting or work the camera, try different departments out and be like, oh, working with actors isn't what I want to do. I actually wanted to be the guy who holds the camera or I wanted to be the guy who lights a scene. So it kind of weeded itself out that way, naturally, where people got to learn where they fit on a film set and what their passion is. For me, I always loved just working with actors, telling the story and ultimately having it be my own creative vision.

Jennifer Logue: 13:23

Because the director is the one that has the creative vision and rallies everyone behind that vision.

Christopher Macken: 13:29

Sure, and I mean especially if you wrote the thing as well, your vision is even stronger because it's your baby. But no, it goes the same way too if it's someone else's writing, because you do have to be the person who makes the decisions and sets the tone and, yeah, it gets the crew to rally behind you and lead them on that journey Very cool.

Jennifer Logue: 13:55

Yeah, the thing is, I don't think the average person realizes the complexities of all the different characters that make up a film. We know the traditional ones, like the director, the actors, but they've been just like the people in charge of cinematography and lighting, and all these roles play a huge role. And then the director's like, you've got to communicate to everybody.

Christopher Macken: 14:21

Yeah, I feel like it's funny. I feel like in a sense directing gets I don't want to say it gets easier, because as you evolve, because you have more crew, I feel like it's always difficult. I mean, even in the beginning you have to kind of be a filmmaker that plays all the roles you know, like you're not getting money or like hired for jobs out of film school or before, during, so you're learning how to shoot it yourself, direct it yourself, edit it yourself, light it yourself, if you even have lights. So you're always playing all those roles. But yeah, as the projects get bigger and you do have a crew, it does come with its new set of challenges, that's for sure. But definitely a lot of the weight is taken off in a sense, where you're like you can focus more on your actors and focus more on the story and you don't have to worry so much about like physically putting up a light yourself.

Jennifer Logue: 15:18

Focus is everything I mean. It's like when you're trying to do too many things.

Christopher Macken: 15:24

I know and I still have that mindset and I have to remind myself on, like bigger projects, where I do have the luxury of a good crew that I like should just focus and stay in my lane and offer support, of course, but, yeah, keep my hands off the equipment.

Jennifer Logue: 15:39

Yeah, oh, my gosh, that's a great lesson to walk away with, for sure to anyone who's listening. So this is creative space, and I love asking this question of everyone. But how would you define creativity?

Christopher Macken: 15:54

Geez, that's a crazy question. That's like asking what, how would you define art, interesting Creativity? I would say it's like it's definitely a state of being right, because it's like you know, I'm in a creative state right now or a state of creativity. For me, I think it's a state of being where I can be fully present and make deliberate artistic actions and work off new ideas and challenge old ones. Yeah, that's tough, because I feel like creativity can be in all aspects of everything. It could be cooking dinner, you know, putting it in and trying the new spice, anything that like draws inspiration and like helps you, you know, make choices and like. That's interesting. That's a really good question Because also, like, I like, off the bat, want to be like.

Christopher Macken: 16:56

It's when, like you make conscious actions of like, you know like love or like, instead of like actions out of fear. But I also feel like there are a lot of creative actions taken out of fear. You know, like MacGyver, like, yes, you get creative and intense situations. Yeah, I think it applies to like such a wide spectrum of everything you can involve creativity. So I think it's a. It's a state of being where you have to use your faculties to. You know, problem solve and create in an artistic way. I hope that made any sense.

Jennifer Logue: 17:31

No, it makes total sense. And what you said about fear is really interesting to me, because I always had that. You know, I've been really trying to say in a love state of mind when I create, you know, but then that's almost manipulative and it's like because we do fear, we're humans, we have emotions and now I just I'm trying to have this mindset of like, let me work with what I got.

Jennifer Logue: 17:57

Sure you know I'm feeling anxious today. Okay, instead of feeling anxious, how about I write something with that, in that, if I'm fearful, you know, create a fear and create from that fearful place and see what happens. It's better than not doing anything.

Christopher Macken: 18:17

Exactly. Yeah, it's just kind of meeting yourself where you're at at that moment. Yeah, that's really interesting to think about.

Jennifer Logue: 18:25

Yeah, but it's interesting you brought that up, because I don't think anyone else has brought that up.

Christopher Macken: 18:30

Oh cool. Yeah, I mean, I try to always ask myself when I'm making a decision or doing any action in my life at all, like whether I'm acting out of a place of love or fear, and that's usually when you need to. If it's not a fear, you're like maybe I should pause on this and get a clearer mind. But yeah, creativity can happen in all aspects of emotion and feelings and yeah, I'm sure some people would argue the best start comes out of the tougher feelings.

Jennifer Logue: 18:59

Yeah, it depends, right? Yeah, right, we love our comedy too. Different for everybody. I mean, I want to help you do, but that comes from some pain.

Christopher Macken: 19:06

You know those comedians are sad clowns, you know.

Jennifer Logue: 19:11

So, for listeners who may not be familiar with the film industry, what exactly does a producer do?

Christopher Macken: 19:19

Yeah, I mean there's many branches to producers, you know, there's like associate producer, co-producer, producer, executive producer, and they all have very different jobs. For example, well, in general, a producer is someone, you know, who builds a project from the ground up, whether it's financing or whether it's being a producer on set, you know, problem solving and giving support to the director. But it is someone who produces, you know, helps create a and make happen a project in support of a vision or a filmmaker. And those different types of producers that I listed, like executive producer usually, is like it can be. You know, so many people fall into these roles in different ways, but like, for example, it could be an executive producer, could be someone who founded the script at their production company and brought it to their boss and said this is great, we got to make this. Or it could be someone who invested all the money into the project. So they're kind of like it's derogatory, but they're like the students, you know, like the EPs. They're not like on set problem solving and getting their hands super dirty, which is what the producers do. They're the ones that you will see sitting next to the director and offering their services and being of support to the director and line producer. There's a line producer who you know is in charge of, you know, budget and also so many other things and in terms of like co-producer and associate producer, associate producer could be kind of anyone who's contributed to the project in a significant way. It could be like starting off as like the director's assistant who, like, went above and beyond, and so it's like a courtesy, or it could be someone who brought a specific actor to the project or just contributed in some way.

Christopher Macken: 21:24

I was a co-producer on Charlie's movie Fool's Paradise and I started as an associate producer and then, like, as the project kept working, he was nice enough to you know up my credit, but my job on that was kind of all over the place. You know I didn't really have any set guidelines. You know I was helping Charlie with a lot of creative stuff in terms of like helping him with you know script notes and being the one to like type up his thoughts. His movie's Hollywood based. It's a Hollywood story, so there was a lot of posters that needed to be made. So I helped with the graphic design department and, you know, took a lot of photos or made some posters. So it's kind of like all over the place. You know it's a jack of all trades of sorts and there were other co-producers on the project who came into that role very differently. But yeah, it's mostly like people getting their start to eventually become a producer. So yeah, that was a long winded answer.

Christopher Macken: 22:26

No it's fascinating, there's just so many tears.

Jennifer Logue: 22:30

And it seems like what advice would you have for someone on set who's like, in a role like you are, just be down to do whatever has to be done to the best of your ability.

Christopher Macken: 22:42

I mean is that Sure, Obviously, I'm a huge advocate of not putting yourself in danger or doing anything that you know sacrifices your own well being, of course. But yeah, it's really rolling with the punches in terms of like problem solving and, you know, having a good attitude and being of service to the project. And for someone starting out, you know, it is really all relationship based. So it's like take care of yourself so you can show up on set in a way that you're proud of, and you know that just operate in a way that people want to be around you and they, after the project, are like thank God that guy was there, that guy or girl was on this, because they really boosted morale and they did that thing that they didn't have to do. And I feel like that just goes for like anyone trying to do anything. If people like you, they're going to keep you around. And if people like you and trust you and know you're a good person, they're more likely to give you an opportunity, you know.

Jennifer Logue: 23:49

That's so true. Such important advice, such important advice.

Christopher Macken: 23:54

Yeah, because, like so many, like all these jobs in Hollywood, like it's all relationship based, like there are a lot of ground floor level positions, like being a production assistant or something that you can get on without knowing anybody.

Christopher Macken: 24:07

But if you kill it on that job and you're a pleasure to be around and your boss, your AD, loves you, they're going to take you on a roller coaster of rides Wow, I'm sorry of jobs, a roller coaster of jobs and different experiences and just keep you alone for the ride. So it is about finding your people for sure out here who you will continue to work with. Yeah, because I feel like there's also this like there's like this fantasy or misconception of when you come out here and it's same with me and like one of my heroes, charlie Day, it's like you want to come out here and you want to collaborate and work with like your heroes. But it really is about like the peers you're coming up with, like you do have, like a class you know, and, yeah, it's like those people can be great mentors and you can have opportunities to collaborate with them. But it is about coming up with, like the people of your same age and the people surrounding you on these projects because they will continue to hire you, etc.

Jennifer Logue: 25:13

I do want to ask how did you initially get connected with Charlie Day when you first got to Hollywood? How did that all come together?

Christopher Macken: 25:21

Sure, it's kind of a crazy story. Sure, there's a lot I can't say because of NDAs. But yeah, you know, I went to school in Boston and I put all my money into getting a little like DSLR camera and trying to pay off that credit card, I was like I gotta find some side hustles.

Christopher Macken: 25:47

So I began shooting rap videos in Boston not me rapping, but I would shoot for like aspiring rappers in Boston do music videos, and I kind of got really like into that world and I was also, like you know, pa-ing whenever I could, assisting people on like little jobs here and there. And there's this one job in particular that I worked on where I was a PA and that comes back around shortly in the story. But I ended up, you know, I came out to LA for my final semester of college and I ended up bumping into a director that I worked with in Boston and I was like hey, do you remember me? Like if you need help on anything, I'm around, I'm in LA for this semester. And he was like yeah, for sure.

Christopher Macken: 26:35

And I ended up getting a call from him like a week later asking me if I was free for like the next week to drive him and his friend on a trip. And I was like I'll have to take off like a week of school, but sure, why not? So I did that, I took the chance and I was like it's you know, relationships, it's important, I'll get in with this important person who has the stuff that I want and does the things that I want to do. And it turned out his friend was a very important person who had a lot of industry connection and I ended up just like becoming, like weirdly, like a personal driver for like a bunch of people in this network that I've just established and I'm like that's weird.

Christopher Macken: 27:23

Am I like a limo driver now? But it was strange. But, like you know, I eventually was able to catch up on all the classes that I missed and I moved back home to Boston and graduated and was just trying to like make a life out there. And I kept in touch with these people and they were like how can we help you? What do you need? And they were like we know a lot of filmmakers. Send us your you know resume, your work, whatever, and we'll put you in touch. And I didn't hear anything for like a year.

Christopher Macken: 27:59

And I eventually got reconnected with this person again and they were like hey, did my buddy ever reach out to you, a producer? And I was like no, he's like all right, expect a call this week. And I was like, okay, something's happening. And eventually I got a call and it was from this like legendary producer and he was like, hey, listen, kid, like we're making a movie in Atlanta. He's like give me a call next Thursday 3 pm. And he hangs up. And I'm like that was very weird. And so I set like a million alarms and calendar stuff, reminders and I ended up calling him back and that next Thursday, whatever obscure time he gave me. He was like okay, you passed the first test. You take direction, well, you listen. And I was like, oh man, I'm getting these weird tests. And I think there were a few more of those types of things.

Christopher Macken: 28:51

And eventually, after I passed them all, he was like listen, we need an actor's assistant on this movie we're shooting called Fist Fight in Atlanta. And I looked it up and it was like starring Charlie Day in Ice Cube. And I was like, absolutely. And he was like but here's the deal you have to work as a local because that's all we have in the budget, so you need to find a place to stay. We're gonna pay you a minimum wage and we can't pay for your travel. And I was like I'll be there tomorrow. Yes, you will. I was like it's so worth it. Someone's taken a chance on me. I have nothing on my resume that would put me in this position in a way where they feel totally comfortable, because I've never done something like this.

Christopher Macken: 29:37

So I drove from Boston to Atlanta, packed up my little car, and I was under the impression that I was going to be assisting Ice Cube. So I was like hell, yeah, I have all these rap videos that I shot. This is great, yeah. And I get there and they're like the first thing this producer does is sit me down and he's like, all right, watch this video. And it was Charlie Day's Merrimack College like speech that he gave which went viral because it's so lovely.

Christopher Macken: 30:04

And I was like, oh, am I assisting Charlie? Like I'm a huge, always sunny fan. And he was like, yep, this will be your guy, blah, blah. And I was just like I had to pivot because I was like, oh, I thought I was about to be Ice Cube's assistant, but I was thrilled because I grew up as such a huge fan of Charlie and we really got to bonds. We were shooting this movie at this old abandoned school in Atlanta for like four months and everyone the crew, the cast, everyone is just together 24, seven in this one area. So we all really got to bond and know each other.

Christopher Macken: 30:40

But the thing with Charlie was he would fly home to LA most weekends to be with his family. Like that was just part of his deal, and so I would be alone in Atlanta on the weekends and I had my camera and I was like, oh, now's the chance to like I can shoot some stuff. So I remember I slid into the DMs on Instagram of a lot of Atlanta rappers, cool and I was like, hey, what's up, man, I'm working with Ice Cube. Like totally, like, totally, like exaggerated my role. I was just like, yeah, I'm working on this Ice Cube movie, do you need a music video? And I remember this one.

Christopher Macken: 31:18

Like I started getting like responses and from like these Southern legends and I finally I got this one message from this guy. His name was Pastor Troy and he was like big in like the crunk era with like Lil Jon and the East Side Boys and all this stuff. And I got a response spot from this guy named Play-A-Fly and he was like a member of like the original three, six mafia. Like these dudes were like Southern and they were like yeah, we're down. And I was like cool, when do you want to shoot? They're like right now and I'm like it's midnight on a Saturday. Ok, where am I meeting you? So I remember just me, I had my little camera case and I met like these dudes in like this underground parking garage in like downtown Atlanta.

Jennifer Logue: 32:03

Wow.

Christopher Macken: 32:04

It was pretty terrifying. I'm like I'm so out of my element, like fish out of water, and you know, they show up. One of them's got like this, like barking, like Doverman, that looks like it's about to like rip my face off and like they all have guns. And I'm just like where am I? But they were so sweet and kind to me, like you know, like they're walking up and they're just like hey, chris, do you need some? Like water? Can we like get you some snacks before we shoot? And I'm like, oh, you guys are so kind and we shot this video called I Want Him All Dead and it was just a song about murder, just straight murder. And that song so ridiculous.

Christopher Macken: 32:46

But I shot this video for these guys and I remember I picked up Charlie from the airport that following Monday and he's like, what did you do this weekend, expecting me to be like, oh, just hung out, man, you know watch TV. And I was like, yeah, I shot this video. And I like handed him my laptop and he's just sitting there in the car watching it. And he's like, what the hell, dude? And so we go about our day on set and like the director, the producer, everyone's coming up to me being like, hey, charlie, show us that video.

Christopher Macken: 33:16

And I was like, whoa, that's crazy. And everyone kind of started seeing me different and being like, oh, this kid is like make shit happen. And obviously I wouldn't put myself in all the crazy situations I did in my early 20s, but it was definitely a pivotal moment of showing that I could lead a vision and carry it out and shoot and edit something super quick in a night and have it ready to go online or whatever. And yeah, that's where Charlie and I really formed our connection and he really pushed me to move out to LA and so after that movie wrapped, I went to Boston and I was like, do I have to do it? I got to take the plunge and I moved to LA and I was like I made it, like I'm good, I know Charlie, I know all these people on this movie, and I get to LA. I don't hear from anyone for like four months.

Christopher Macken: 34:11

I'm like emailing everybody being like, hey, do you need me to work on anything? Like can I help? And everyone's just going about their lives and I was just like, ooh, major reality check. So I ended up getting a job waiting tables at Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles in Hollywood, which is a legendary rapper spot, because I'm like I'm going to meet more rappers and make music videos. And then eventually I just kept bothering Charlie and bothering all these people I met and eventually projects came up where they needed a hand and I just kind of wheezed my way on these sets and just made myself of service wherever I could be. That was a super long answer, so interesting.

Jennifer Logue: 34:50

No, I mean, these stories are so fascinating and you learn so much. I learned so much hearing your story and I know listeners are going to as well. It's like you got to put yourself out there and you got to work really hard and just be awesome and great things will happen, but you got to be patient too.

Christopher Macken: 35:09

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, it's just like showing up for yourself. I mean there is like I don't want to say right place and right time. There is a little bit of luck that goes into it. But if you're willing to put the work in, I mean like it's gonna come eventually. Like it's. I always like tell this to people who like move out to LA it's like it's not overnight success, it's a marathon out here, like it's. I've been out here for like almost like nine, 10 years and like I'm just kind of starting to see some of the seeds I planted 10 years ago grow. But yeah, it's just like establishing like that longevity and like just yeah, lowering expectations a little bit and being realistic about it, cause it's it takes time out here.

Jennifer Logue: 36:03

Yeah, but it sounds like a sort of it's been worth it and that's such a cool story. Oh my gosh, thank you for sharing. Of course, so you do a lot going on career wise, though I mean you. First of all, you worked with Charlie on this new movie, his most recent film, Fools Paradise. Do you want to talk about that, what that experience was like and anything you learned?

Christopher Macken: 36:29

Oh, it was so cool. It was like it was like film school all over again. You know, I started off just kind of like I maybe even just like being like a coffee runner for him, so like being a note taker to you know, just like every step of the way, cause it was like completely independently financed, like he, you know, had to jump all these hurdles to you know, put a package together of a movie to take to investors to eventually convince them to give the money and make the thing. So you know, it was kind of helping him along the way, any way that I could be of service to him and the project. So one of like the first things I did when I moved out to LA was he was shooting Always Sunny, and he was like, hey, you got that camera, like you should just come down to set and on my lunch break let's just go like shoot some stuff, and so like it was really cool. You know I got to see like the set of Sunny and like shoot my camera on that set and like we just got to like run around and you know that movie he plays like a silent film character, like a Buster Keaton, charlie Chaplin type like character that's mute and gets into all this trouble. But so, yeah, we got to just run around like Fox studios and just like shoot him in different costumes and just all this stuff and like just kind of play with things while he started to put together what he needed to get financing.

Christopher Macken: 37:56

So that also involved me helping make like pitch decks. Like a lot of my day to day is making pitch decks, whether it's for Charlie, my own stuff or like whether I do it to. You know, make rent and help with other people's projects. It's a lot of, you know making Photoshopped slide shows of like, hey, this is the story, these are images, this is where the budget's going, like all the boring stuff. So it was a lot of that. And then, yeah, just kept like chipping away at each thing that I could help him with and eventually, you know he the coolest part of working on that project was he hired J Todd Anderson, who is the storyboard artist for all the Coen Brothers movies.

Jennifer Logue: 38:37

Whoa.

Christopher Macken: 38:39

Yeah, and so it was me, him and Charlie, just getting to sit every day in this conference room and like work out this entire film shot by shot. So I would sit there and they would like come up. They would be on the whiteboard drawing like overheads, being like, okay, like I see the characters here blocking wise, you see the camera being here. And then, like the storyboard artist would be like, oh, what if we did this crazy shot where the camera comes out of here, it goes there and then, like I would be in the back, like kind of like the scribe being like, okay, shot one will be, you know, a closeup of Charlie that pans into a wide of blah, blah, blah. And so it was like working weeks on end and just seeing like how a movie gets made and storyboarded and shot listed, and that was like one of the best experiences of my life and like I feel so prepped and ready to go on like anything in the future after that experience. Yeah, and so once we had that full thing, we started taking meetings with like department heads, like DPs or like costume designers, production designers, and we would hand them the storyboard book and be like this is our movie and it was such a great like frame of reference for everything. Cause if, like the costume designers, like, what do you see this person wearing? It's like oh, page 10, like we have a picture of it. So it answered like so many preliminary questions and was able to like help people get a jumpstart on their own contributions to the film and whatever department they're in. So, yeah, it was just kind of like doing this, this and that for them until we eventually got to set.

Christopher Macken: 40:14

And then, you know, in that movie in particular, charlie was the star and he was also directing. So there were times where he was on camera acting where he did need an extra set of eyes. You know, he had his assistant and co-producer, rebecca, there, he had me there and he had his editor there. So we all, the three of us like all worked to, you know, help him see things that he wasn't seeing because he was in front of the camera, or giving him ideas to be like, hey, what if we got this? And blah, blah, blah blah, to make the edit easy. So, yeah, it wasn't just like one thing I got to do. I really did get to like play a lot of different like roles and contribute to the making of this movie, which was really cool. I'm so grateful for that experience.

Jennifer Logue: 41:00

And to experience all of the steps. I mean like even with pre-production, from start to finish getting involved with Fool's Paradise. How long did the process take for a feature?

Christopher Macken: 41:13

Yeah, well, that one is a special case because it was a lot of reshoots and a lot of delays, but I mean, Charlie wrote the thing I think in like I think I read a version of the script when I was assisting him on Fist Fight, which was like 2017.

Christopher Macken: 41:28

Wow I think he didn't get the funding until I think it was like 2019. And then I think it took like I don't know, maybe a year. We were probably finished in 2020. And then the movie didn't come out until this year, 2023. But we had the pandemic, we had a lot of outside factors that required Charlie to pause and then, sitting with it, he chose to reshoot some things. So we definitely had like a longer timeline than the majority of films. But yeah, it's definitely like a year two year process, not including the writing side of things, which is, who knows, some people take like 10 years to finish the script.

Jennifer Logue: 42:10

Yes.

Christopher Macken: 42:11

Yeah.

Jennifer Logue: 42:12

Wow, that's cool to get a peek behind the curtain. And I didn't realize about the storyboard book. Is that like a traditional process of like a film, like a feature film?

Christopher Macken: 42:25

Honestly, not a lot. It definitely is. If you have the budget, it's a great resource and it really like plans so much out, so like when you're on set you're not worrying about hey, which shots do I need. It's like, oh, it's there, everyone's on the same page. It's not a dying art form, because a lot of big budget movies will do storyboards and like even though, as far to make like what are they called? They'll literally make like animations of the entire movie and it looks like PlayStation 1 graphics, but they have like the whole thing pre-planned. I can't think of the word right now. But yeah, if it's in the budget, they usually do it. But a lot of people don't have the luxury and it does come down to the director and the DP sitting down and shot listing the thing themselves.

Jennifer Logue: 43:18

OK, because I can imagine with big budget movies you have so many people involved, you don't really have a luxury of like, oh, let's think about this for a second. You know Exactly. So having that like save so much time and resources.

Christopher Macken: 43:35

Yeah, yeah, it almost evens out at the end. It's like it's an expense upfront to storyboard it, but it's probably going to save you money in the long run on set Because you're not wasting time. You can be efficient as possible. Yeah, I think there also is a thing where I think a lot of DP's it depends on who you work with too, but I think some DP's do like to be more hands on with the storyboarding process and shot listing. So it is like also like a balance of like hey, what are you, you know, giving your DP creative freedom, wise, versus coming in with something that's like completely planned out, you know.

Jennifer Logue: 44:17

Right, still having that room so they can be creative, and because some things happen organically and you want to let that happen when you Exactly yeah, it's always better when everyone gets to put their own little touch on the thing they're working on.

Jennifer Logue: 44:34

So you also released recently your short film for the safety of Theo. Now I was really, really blown away by it, Like you told so much story in such a short amount of time and I really felt for the character. It was so visceral, like all the decisions you made, Like, first of all, do you want to talk about the film a little bit for people who haven't seen it yet?

Christopher Macken: 45:01

Yeah, so for the safety of Theo is a short film that I wrote and directed about OCD and sex you know, two super taboo subjects to kind of tackle, and we're currently finishing up our film festival circuit. We've played some really great festivals. Yeah, it's something I'm super proud of.

Jennifer Logue: 45:24

Yeah, it was. I was really impressed by it. Like something that really stuck with me was just we talked about this a little bit before we started recording, but the use of audio to make you feel really connected to the character, like, and then also the pacing of the film, the pacing of the cuts, like you really got into that frantic OCD kind of state of mind and you have to do these things, because you have 10 minutes under 10 minutes.

Christopher Macken: 45:55

Yeah, yeah, they say that the magical number for a short film or like length is like eight and a half minutes. So I like I tried, because it's easier to program in a film festival. If it's like taking up 30 minutes of their time slots that they have, it's like, oh, we can fit that shorter film in here. But yeah, like the film, I'll say what it's about real play. It's about this man struggling with OCD and the rituals and compulsions that he does the morning after a one night stand. So it, yeah, so everything from, you know, spiraling out and ruminating to cleaning himself, cleaning his apartment, to eventually seeking out an STD test at a local pharmacy where he runs into the girl from the night before to cause a little bit of a little drama in a storytelling point of view, yeah, it's cool. But yeah, I appreciate what you said about the audio. We did have like a Foley artist who created a lot of crazy sounds that weren't recorded, you know, on the day. Because, like you know, foley artists for people who don't know are, you know the audio, like engineers who are, you know, making these sounds in a studio. So it's like you know you see someone walking on screen. They're like recording their own feet walking on the ground or whatever texture it is. So in our film we really wanted to focus on like the sounds, the grotesque sounds coming from like his compulsions, whether it's like his checking or his like brushing his teeth or his checking his like lips for, you know, potential STDs. So we had a Foley artist come up with all those sounds and really amplify them because, you know, to anyone with OCD these things are amplified to the max in their own heads and it's kind of paint that a little. Literally.

Christopher Macken: 47:50

The coolest thing I think with our sound design and our audio was the music. So we had a composer do the full score and he's a buddy of my name, eric Groisman. He's so talented and he came up with this idea where he wanted to do like an off pattern, like rhythm of the song I don't know music terminology but you know instead of like so when a song's like, you know, 1231234123 and it's like repetitive, like your mind knows where it's going next. So he like wanted to add an extra note in there, so just like throw the viewer off and make them uneasy. So we had that in the music. That adds like a little bit of like anxiety subconsciously.

Jennifer Logue: 48:36

I have to watch it again now because I was trying to figure out what was making me feel, the way the character felt, and there's a lot of elements coming into play with that was a pacing of the cuts and everything and it was, you know, the Foley art artists doing all that stuff. But now I have to listen to the music. Yeah it's a crazy score.

Christopher Macken: 48:56

Yeah, it's very unsettling and yeah it's a funny story. Like his, his wife was like pregnant at the time and he like recorded his like unborn baby like the heartbeat and put that in the movie. So it's like it's so, it's so crazy. Like his like kids, like unborn soul, within this movie. It's pretty wild, but it's just like it's such a geeky, you know composer thing to do. It's like, oh, I'm going to record this thing.

Jennifer Logue: 49:29

Yeah, you know, putting yourself into your art, you know, I think that's the best thing.

Christopher Macken: 49:34

Yeah, and then he was able to make more meaning out of like. His contribution to it, to like the movie is so equally his as it is mine, and I hope that goes. I hope everyone who worked on it feels that way.

Jennifer Logue: 49:46

Well, that's a nice segue into making art. That's personal, because you talked about this, with OCD being something that you deal with and like, how did you have any apprehensions about getting so personal and something you're putting out for the world?

Christopher Macken: 50:04

Yeah, absolutely. I mean obviously the stories like very amplified and dramatized for, like you know, dramatic purposes, to make it entertaining, but it does. Yeah, come from a real place, me trying to figure out my own, can I swear?

Jennifer Logue: 50:20

Oh no, it's fine we this ship has sailed, I just believe. Okay, but then I do watch other podcasts and stuff, even on LinkedIn like, which is more, like you know, professional and like so many people don't really care even about the F word anymore. So I'm like I know, right, do I even need the bleeps? But I'll keep doing the bleeps just because it's kind of funny, especially with someone swears a lot, and I was like you know.

Christopher Macken: 50:49

I'm gonna try and keep the workload but, um, yeah, making art that's personal. It's kind of honestly like been a new, new, like evolution in my journey. Yeah, it really just came down to working on myself, like in my personal life, and discovering, like you know, in finding like new ways to you know, repair it myself and new tools to develop, to get myself through hardship and learning from past mistakes and all the things that go into growing and evolving and finding and to put that on screen to be like of service to others. You know, I feel like when I first came out here like I was making a ton of comedies and nothing with like a true message, which is fine, like I still love comedy, so just like escape into and that don't nail in on a specific theme per se. But I just kind of had like a pretty crazy moment where I just like a realization, where I'm like I can help people do my art and like that's the, that's the purpose of this, this art, and like telling such tough stories.

Christopher Macken: 52:16

You know I've seen films about OCD. I've seen films about sex, sex addiction, all that stuff, but I've never seen like OCD talked about in that nature because, like you know, it's something I struggle with is OCD and like I am a part of all these like support groups and stuff on the internet and stuff, and like all the things that people are too scared to talk about is how it affects their like sex and intimacy and I'm like that's crazy. Like we need to be able to like talk about. This is like people in so much pain who, like, are too scared to talk about it Some people don't even know they have OCD. It's like I'm hoping that like making stuff like this, especially for the safety of Theo, will like someone will watch it and be like. That's why I feel this way. This is why I do these things too, like it might like provide awareness and change someone's life or just like show people who already know that like they're not alone and like this is what people struggle other people do struggle with.

Christopher Macken: 53:18

So, yeah, making art that personal to me is definitely a new thing for me, but I wouldn't say it's uncomfortable, like I've it felt very cathartic, like I was. I learned a lot about myself through making it and I continue to have like revelations about it, be like oh, that's interesting. I did that because that means this it's like such a growing experience and I feel like that's what like good art is like. It continues to have different meanings to me and I think it will stand kind of like the test of time. Yeah, it's just people are gonna relate to it in such different ways. It's funny, especially with that film too, because I shared it with the OCD community and we had some beautiful write-ups on Made of Millions and other great mental health advocacy websites, and I never experienced this, but the amount of DMs and messages I got from people literally being like you're telling my story. This helps me so much I've never been able to talk about it. Thank you so much. I brought tears to my eyes.

Christopher Macken: 54:27

I'm like this is what it means to be an artist and this is what I want to do.

Christopher Macken: 54:32

It just blew my mind that it could relate to so many people and I was saying it's funny about that movie because some people think it's a comedy, some people can't relate to it so hard and think it's so over the top that they laugh hysterically at it. Every screening we have it's always silence or it's one person laughs and then everyone laughs and I feel like that's so much of just what OCD is, because it's such a public stigma and perception that it's silly and goofy and not really a big deal because every movie makes fun of it. Ocd, yep, yeah, it's one, two, three, one, two, three. But OCD may look like that for some people, but it's such a broad spectrum. For other people it's more mental. For some people it is rituals and checking and whatnot, but it's so painful. I think it is important to have the comedy stuff that we can laugh about on the subject, but also having showing it for what it is and how painful it can actually be, I think also brings that awareness and will help people understand OCD a little bit better.

Jennifer Logue: 55:47

Start a conversation and inspire empathy in others.

Christopher Macken: 55:51

Yeah, exactly yeah, but the people that laugh, it's so interesting. I went to a coffee shop the other day and I walked in and they had a big t-shirt for sale and it was like I have OCD obsessive coffee disorder. I think it's funny, I think it's stupid, but I know so many people who would be so hurt by seeing that because it's like I don't know what it is, but OCD people just don't give it the time of day. It's something so many people struggle with, especially after this pandemic, this shared traumatic experience everyone went through, because everyone's grasping at ways of control and ways to feel safe and that looks like compulsions for a lot of people. Yeah, obsessive thinking. I think there was a huge amount of OCD movies that went into film festivals this past year and I'm like, okay, that makes sense. It might be one of those themes that people are starting to tackle.

Jennifer Logue: 56:57

It's so important. Being an artist is a service to the world, because we're providing a vehicle for people to express themselves, or to at least feel what the character's feeling, because maybe they can't articulate it themselves. Yeah Right, I wonder about the people who laughed if that was their way of reacting, because it did sound uncomfortable.

Christopher Macken: 57:25

Uncomfortable. You could tell the parts they were laughing at were some pretty uncomfortable parts and I'm sure you know which ones they are after watching it. But yeah, it was interesting. But I think that's also a sign of good art. I didn't get upset or take it personally. I'm like, oh, people are having a roller coaster of emotions right now. I'm like this is pretty cool and the fact that it's different and, depending on the audience, yeah, it's been cool going to those film festivals and seeing how it plays in a room full of people.

Jennifer Logue: 57:55

So cool. Yeah, what's next for the safety of Theo? It's on the festival circuit, but I mean what happens after the festival circuit?

Christopher Macken: 58:03

Yeah, we're starting to finish up. I think our last festival is in November. It's cool. We're playing a few more really cool ones. We're playing at Kevin Smith's Modcastle Film Festival, which will be really cool. We're playing at Tacoma Film Festival A bunch of really cool ones. But what's next?

Christopher Macken: 58:23

I'm trying to figure out an online release I'm crossing my fingers that it's short of the week or a Vimeo staff pick or something like that, but I do want to release it online within the next few months. In terms of the project itself evolving, I do want to turn that into a feature film I've started outlining because it tells the story of this guy's rock bottom. Essentially. I think I can take it even further. I see him being terrified of engaging on another date again and just seeing what efforts he goes to to get his needs met and also what pitfalls he falls in because he's not yet at a place where he's hit a bottom hard enough to go and seek help yet. I think there's a really cool story. I was thinking it's probably like sound of metal meets that movie. Shame Could be a nice hybrid where it tells the story of this guy just getting so lost in his mental compulsions and painting a parallel with someone in active addiction, Because at the end of the day, it's all compulsive behavior to feel safe and fill that hole.

Christopher Macken: 59:42

I think it's a larger story of someone hitting some low lows and then eventually finding help which I think could be a really cool story yeah.

Jennifer Logue: 59:53

Oh, that'll be really cool Because I was really interested in the character. We want to know what happens next. I wanted to know what happens next after the film was over.

Christopher Macken: 1:00:03

I know right. Is he going to actually seek help? Yes, or is he about to go on a dating app and do it all over again, because he's even more uncomfortable now?

Jennifer Logue: 1:00:14

I felt for him so much. You want to see him at least be on the journey to the path out to getting better, to at least being able to manage better by connecting.

Christopher Macken: 1:00:27

We don't know, it's just like, and it's like his whole day he spent ruminating and trying to find something to worry about and at the end of the day, he put himself in a position where he got something to worry about. I know.

Jennifer Logue: 1:00:42

I thought that was interesting too. I'm like oh, look.

Christopher Macken: 1:00:45

Yeah, you manifest it in a way.

Jennifer Logue: 1:00:48

He created more problems for himself.

Christopher Macken: 1:00:51

Oh my gosh Poor Theo. It's tragic, poor Theo.

Jennifer Logue: 1:00:56

On a lighter note, you have the gamer in the mouth too.

Christopher Macken: 1:01:02

Yeah, that's, super exciting.

Jennifer Logue: 1:01:04

Yeah, and this is a game show combination comedy and video games and, like TV show audience, tell us about it, because I watched the trailer and. I'm like I've never seen anything like this, but it's really cool.

Christopher Macken: 1:01:22

Yeah, it's definitely like the first of its nature, and that's what was like so exciting about it. This is a project that, like I think, started like five, six years ago.

Christopher Macken: 1:01:32

I had an old roommate who was a standup comedian and he started this like standup show at this brewery downtown and there was like a projector screen there and he's like, oh, it could be fun if, like, we threw some video games on the screen and just had some comedians talk some shit, and he would ask me to go down with my camera film the event to like promote it and whatnot. And just like the energy there was like so insane. Like you had a panel of comedians just commentating. So it was funny. You had people there just for the comedy and then you had people there for the video game. So it was like you could have like a 10 year old kid there to play the game and then like his dad who's having an equally amazing time listening to the comedy. So it was just like whoa, these communities merging. This is crazy.

Christopher Macken: 1:02:22

And so we just kept talking because we lived together at the time about like what is like a show, like can we turn this into like a show? And we partnered with like this other guy who I was like doing assistant work for at the time, and the three of us like pitched it at an agency and they were like this is great, we're going to pick it up and they, you know, we partnered with like a touring company and we partnered with some gamers. Then the pandemic hit and so we made a zoom version and it was so funny. It was like. The idea was like it's a video game competition and each pro gamer or pro YouTuber whatever personality we got is paired up with a stand up comedian to talk crap. Sorry.

Jennifer Logue: 1:03:12

You know you can say it's fine, I got the power of the bleeps, it's all good.

Christopher Macken: 1:03:17

So, yeah, it's called the gamer in the mouth because it's a video game competition where you got gamers competing head to head and they're partnered with a mouth to do their trash talk for them. So the whole idea was like kind of like trying to bring it back to the days where you're like playing video games in your basement with your buddies and like talking trash, and so we're like let's, let's take that energy and make it into like an event, like a game show. So pandemic hit, we did a zoom version, then the pandemic lifted and we partnered with Jack Septekai, who's like a really big YouTuber in that video game world, and we were like let's do a live show and film it as a special. And we partnered with Cinemark movie theaters and, yeah, really cool. So we, we shot a special in LA where we had two live shows at the Alex theater in Glendale, and the energy of the show was like insane. Like you know, so much of the audience were the gamer communities who are like their fans are die hard fans. Yes, it was crazy.

Christopher Macken: 1:04:29

Like and like the comedians would come up. They would come off stage Like we had great comedians we had like Moses Storm and like Jeremiah Watkins and Eleanor Kerrigan, like so many legends, and they would come off stage and I'd be like, how was it? They're like these laughs and this like crowd reaction is what you dream of when you tell a joke. Like their, their spirits were so high. They're like I've never experienced an audience like this and so like that whole night was so fun. So it was just like a video game competition three rounds, three different games and our hosts were Jacksepticeye and Chris Red from SNL and yeah, they just like took us through the show and it was. We shot a special and yeah, it's so much fun and that premieres October 7th in cinema theaters and yeah, I hope people like it. Regardless, I think it's going to be like a live show that we continue. I hope it translates to screen, but it's so fun to be there in person because that was like a crazy spectacle.

Jennifer Logue: 1:05:28

So you're going to continue live shows Like are you going to go on tour, are you going to keep them in LA?

Christopher Macken: 1:05:33

We don't know yet. Like that's, everybody at that show felt the magic and saw that like this can go a million different ways. So we, we still have to have those talks, but yeah, I think a possibility of that in the future is definitely a thing.

Jennifer Logue: 1:05:51

So cool. No, I was like, wow, I want, I want to see this in person. Yeah, but it is in theaters across the country on October 7th, starting October 7th, so I'll link to it in the podcast. So, thank you. So I mean, I want to say what's next for you, but we already know you're working on a full length version of for the safety of Theo. You have this new show that's premiering October 7th, but what is next for you Apart from that?

Christopher Macken: 1:06:22

Yeah, I mean, I just want to direct and write, like that's my passion. So I really just kind of keep putting pen to paper. You know, I think my next thing, my goal, is to do with my first feature film. Yes, yeah, so I do have one right now that has some interest behind it and I have a team slowly building with that. So I'm really hoping that, like after the writer strike and the SAG strike, and that that becomes a possibility. In the meantime, I'm just putting that pen to paper and trying to take odd jobs to survive, like most out here.

Jennifer Logue: 1:07:00

Yeah, so that's so exciting and I can't wait to hear about that. You'll have to come back on the show to talk about the feature when it's ready to be released. Definitely, because you know it's a matter of time. Yeah, it's only a matter of time.

Christopher Macken: 1:07:13

Yes, yeah, it's such a process.

Jennifer Logue: 1:07:15

Christopher, thank you so much for taking the time to be on Creative Space. Of course, this is so enlightening and so inspiring, really. Thank you For more on Christopher Macen, visit directorchrismacencom. And thank you so much for tuning in and growing in creativity with us. I'd love to know what you thought of today's episode, what you found most interesting, what you found most helpful. You can reach out to me on social media, at JenniferLogue or leave, or leave for creative space on Apple podcasts so more people can discover it. I appreciate you so much for being here. My name is Jennifer Logue and thanks for listening to this episode of Creative Space. Until next time.