Screenwriter Brian Clark On Collaboration Without Ego and What it Takes to Get a Script Made Today

On today’s episode of Creative Space, we have the pleasure of speaking with screenwriter Brian Clark. He has quite the inspiring creative journey so far, getting his start as a publicist in New York City for films like Rachel Getting Married, Coco Before Chanel, and the Runaways. He then moved to Paris where he worked as a film correspondent for websites like Movieline. Today he resides in LA where he co-founded the film series Projections and is busy as a screenwriter. His latest film, Vesper, which he co-wrote with Bruno Samper and Kristina Buozyte, was just released on September 30 through IFC films. 

We talk about his career beginnings and the importance of building healthy collaborative relationships, as well as debunk a myth or two about what it really takes to get a script made. 

For more on Vesper, visit: vespermovie.com.

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SHOW NOTES:

00:00—Introduction

01:44—What drew Brian to screenwriting

03:26—The allure of movies he wasn’t allowed to see

04:28—Play is the best case scenario of what creativity can be

05:06—Why horror films inspired him in his early days

08:30—Working as a film publicist in NYC

11:08—Why writing movie reviews was second nature

13:26—Following his future wife to Paris

15:45—How life in Paris shaped his perspective

17:30—Learning contentment

18:30—Brian’s definition of creativity

20:30—Why it’s now in the “bin of meaningless words”

22:42—The discipline of creativity

23:00—What is it actually like being a screenwriter?

25:10—The myth of spec scripts

26:00—Tips for getting a movie made now

27:20—Choosing which idea to pursue

30:20—Why ideas are overrated

31:40—Working with his collaborators on Vesper

35:14—How he met Bruno and Kristina

36:46—What inspired Vesper

42:00—Writing the script for Vesper

43:30—Collaboration without ego

45:00—Dialogue tips

46:00—Knowing what will work on screen

46:44—What Brian wishes he knew 10 years ago

48:15—What’s next 

Transcript

Jennifer Logue: 0:11

Hello and welcome to creative space, a Podcast where we explore, learn and grow in creativity. I'm your host Jennifer Logue. And on today's episode, we have the pleasure of speaking with screenwriter Brian Clark. He has quite the inspiring, creative journey so far, getting his start as a publicist in New York City for films like Rachel Getting Married Coco before Chanel and the runaways He then moved to Paris, where he worked as a film correspondent for websites like movie line. Today, he resides in LA, where he co founded the film series projections and is busy as a screenwriter, his latest film Vesper, which he co wrote with Bruno Sampar, and Christina bougie. Tay was just released on September 30 through IFC Films. Brian, welcome to creative space.

Brian Clark: 1:02

Thank you for having me. Hello.

Jennifer Logue: 1:05

Oh, my gosh, it's a pleasure. So I've got to ask, you're in LA now you've been all over the world. Where are you from? Originally?

Brian Clark: 1:12

I was born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, actually. And I lived there for 12 or 13 years and moved to Houston. Really? The suburbs of Houston. And most formative years, were there and then I, yes. And then Austin to New York, to Paris to Los Angeles, where I am now.

Jennifer Logue: 1:41

Globetrotter, for sure. Did you always want to be a screenwriter?

Brian Clark: 1:48

I always wanted to do something with movies. since I can remember. I think I ended up gravitating towards screenwriting, because it was something that I could practice for free without help from anybody has to I mean, directing and a lot of other mean, cinematography. You need lots of equipment and favors from people and money. And, and I don't know, I guess at some point, it was easier to just say, well, I can work X job during the day and then just go home and like, right and and so yeah, I kind of I don't think I really like started gravitating towards like I'm just going to raise screenplays until probably my 20s but I went to film school and like, yeah, I made movies with friends and stuff in high school and yeah, ever even when I was a kid, I would like have Godzilla action figures smashing micromachines that I would film and like, make a movie out of that. So yeah, I always wanted to do something with movies, but screenwriting came. I don't know. Seen necessity. That's not quite accurate. But But yeah, ease. Ease of Access. Let's put it that way.

Jennifer Logue: 3:21

When did you first fall in love with movies?

Brian Clark: 3:24

I would say that it was the sort of overwhelming advertising for movies that I wasn't allowed to see that made me kind of put them when I was when I was quite young. And yeah, I don't know me. I mean, my parents were not like extremely protective conservative people, but but I would say that like when everybody else was seeing, like, the dark Tim Burton Batman movie, even though they were like eight years old, like I wasn't allowed to see that. And I would say that there was some sort of like, being denied this thing that made me think from an early age. Well, fine, I'm gonna make a living making these again. Yeah, I guess that's that's kind of there wasn't like a cinema experience where I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I'm gonna do this. I think I always liked playing games and I mean, play basically which is, which is in the best case scenario, like what creativity can be. And so I mean, I think at the same time, the idea of being being able to be paid to make up stories and tell them appealed to me because all I was doing when I like played with friends and stuff was making up stories. So So yeah, I think the those two kind of things together, were what made me interested in working and cinema.

Jennifer Logue: 5:01

Life is short, so we got to do it we love. Yeah, yeah. Who inspired you growing up from an art perspective from a movie perspective?

Brian Clark: 5:10

Good question. It was like definitely younger and living in Baton Rouge. I was just like, watching action movies on TV. And I liked those a lot. And I like for probably until the age of 14, the movie tremors was just my favorite movie and I would just watch tremors over again. I don't have I feel like a lot of people you talk to have some kind of, not you. But like, general you have some sort of formative moment like I do remember crying at ET. But all it made me think was I wish he would stay not like oh my god, I want to make movies. I heard say when I got into high school, I got really I mean, I think like a lot of specially boys my age, like I got really into horror movies and like eighth and ninth grade and horror movies. I don't know if I've always kind of represented like what I don't know, in some sense, they feel accessible, like something you could see yourself making because they don't have big stars. And they they're just like, the best ones are really like friends on weekends with like, a bunch of red corn syrup and like, and like cool ideas. And I think those are the first time that like filmmaking seemed accessible to me, because when I would watch him move, when I would watch a movie with like big stars, or lots of special effects and stuff is like wow, like, Wouldn't it be cool to get some way to give me millions of dollars to do that. But actually watching stuff, like Evil Dead in Texas Chainsaw Massacre and these movies that were still around 40 years later, but that were like made by Yeah, nerd friends. And I mean, a kind of goes both ways on whether this was a positive influence on everybody. But yeah, for me like that, that sort of made me aware of like cinematic style, and sort of like the people behind the movies like I definitely, by 10th grade that evil that too was like more interesting than Citizen Kane. And then I think later in high school I started to get into Yeah, I started to get into like art films and stuff. I remember. The first time I saw Polanski's repulsion, it kind of blew my mind. Like, I didn't know that movies could be made that way. So I don't know. But it was always genre. It was always genre movies that were inspiring to me, because, again, they felt a little bit more they felt like they were for they felt like they had a very distinct point of view, the good ones, but they were also like accessible to everybody, like some are garbage. But some genre movies are able to put a lot of interesting and subversive stuff into that. And so the idea of like being able to connect to people, but still sort of have a voice was interesting to me. I felt like I rambled there. But

Jennifer Logue: 8:23

no, it's interesting to me. So flash forward to your time in New York, working on the PR side of film, but what is the most important lesson you learned? As a publicist? Doing films,

Brian Clark: 8:36

I learned a lot about the business of releasing films and sort of what happens to them after they're done. And it was more like a I got some overall perspective on how everything actually worked. Which, which was good in terms of like, you know, honing what my creative goals were, you also kind of see, like, how much I mean, in New York at that time, with VOD, everything's changed. But at that time, there wasn't like streaming services yet. It was right before they were coming in. And so there would still be like, in New York, anywhere between 15 and 25 movies coming up each week, that we're never going to get outside New York. And some of them it was because they're like, too good, like some, you know, like, saving Ling movie that that's only going to that the distributors decided is only going to have an audience in New York, but then sometimes it was just because it was kind of a bad movie or not interesting movie, like a movie that there was no way whatever, like cut through the noise. And so I guess it was kind of interesting to see how many movies really got made and how few of them were able to like because I mean, part of it was like trying to be a publisher. History movies that people didn't always necessarily want to see, and often for good reason. And so I guess it was interesting to see. Yeah, to get more perspective on that. But I would say it was better just sort of being in New York and having a job that brought me close to people who also worked in film. And yeah, and also, like I said, 25 movies open every week. And so it's like, easily the best paid place in the United States for seeing movies. And so both new and old. And so sort of my film education expanded a lot by just being in New York. Creatively, I didn't learn that much by being a publicist. Business. Yeah, I learned things about the business, and the business is important to know. But, but I'm not sure it's, I don't know, I would say that sometimes, it's almost better not to know if it's sometimes easier to convince yourself to like, to sort of just go in not knowing what you're getting into and not knowing what you're up against. So I had written before I became a publicist, I wrote briefly for The Austin Chronicle, when I got out of University of Texas, I wrote movie reviews for them, which, like, you know, wasn't some kind of full time job to just like, relax with, but at the same time, like, probably, like, have more credibility than any publication that I've written for since then. And I grew up, I mean, I think I alluded to the fact that my parents tried to keep me from seeing a lot of the movies that I wanted to see. And so another, another way around, that was I would get, like, the giant books full of movie reviews, and just read everything I could about the movie that like, I couldn't go to the theater to see. And so an A and so writing reviews of movies came pretty easily. To me. It's it just never seemed like a viable career path. Because, I mean, it's what like, I couldn't be exaggerating, but like, I guess that there's 10 film critics who make a living full time, like who make a decent living full time, like writing or views for films like, and it was, it was on its way out then. And I feel like it's gone that way even further. So but being a publicist, definitely, like, I had to read every review that was written, I had to go through every every, you know, that I had, like, you know, 15 film websites to go through every morning. And so again, I was very like, on top of what was happening in the film world, and also what was happening. Sort of what kind of trends were going on and film criticism, which, in hindsight, or really like not to its betterment, but it probably it probably. Yeah, it probably made me more comfortable saying, oh, yeah, I can be like, I can like write for the style of, you know, blogs and stuff. Here from Paris.

Jennifer Logue: 13:21

So what drew you to Paris? You said it was out of necessity? Oh, I'm

Brian Clark: 13:25

not. I followed a girl who, who I'm now married to so really well. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, the other thing about publicity was, again, I worked with really good people, I did learn a lot of stuff. I wasn't really that good at it. So yeah, I met a girl who we hit it off very quickly. And then very quickly after that, she got a job teaching in Paris, and basically invited me to come along. And I kind of realized that I was sort of floundering in New York at the time, I was doing like, well enough at my publicity job, that it was not something that was going to be a career. And I think that like my bosses and I both knew that. And, and but I didn't want to quit because I didn't know what other job to get. And, and I was writing. I was I was writing screenplays at night but like, I wasn't that close to anything there. I think I was still writing screenplays with a little bit of naivety about like, how easy or hard it was to like, sell a screenplay. So anyway, so then I was just like, well, let's try this. And if it doesn't work, then then I'll figure that out. But But I think I was feeling very, I've been feeling very stuck for about a year. And I think I was frustrated with myself for not being able to make decisions to get me unstuck and then so when offered with somebody who actually wanted me to come with them to Paris, and was willing to roll with the fact that I didn't have a plan I wisely took that opportunity. And then yeah, and then kind of in serendipity Movie Line, which was still a website at the time, everything I've written for him folds are folded into something else. But they were looking for an overnight editor who was overseas who could write news articles like and features, basically when everyone else was sleeping because it'd be in a different timezone. And a new SUV enters cell from publicity stuff. And so I tried out for that job and got it. So yeah, that worked well for like, nine months or something in Paris, and then I had to find other stuff to do. But

Jennifer Logue: 15:42

cool. How has Paris informed your filmmaking and your screenwriting? I would

Brian Clark: 15:47

say, I like Paris a lot. I lived there for three years, and the quality of life was very good. And and I had zero culture shock. I don't know you could argue about New York and Paris at the time, I would say Paris was a better place to see movies than New York, New York's upped its game some but in terms of especially like repertory film and stuff. And so, yeah, I mean, like, I saw more movies there, like, per week than I've ever done. I have at any other point in my life, but I would say, I would say the main thing that Paris did besides like, I mean, besides like, you know, you travel you get more perspective, you find out more things about the world, you meet different, all those cliches are true. But I would say that what Paris actually did was sort of taught me how to be happy in life without necessarily like, being quote unquote, successful. And so by the time I moved to LA, the the the sort of desperation that I think a lot of people have when they're trying to, like, get into the film industry, or any creative type of industry was, was gone, at least for a while, and it creeps back in. But yeah, I would say the biggest thing was, was I felt sort of just like, checked out of all of the competition and stuff in the United States. And, and very just kind of independently free to like, experiment and like, see where things went? Yeah, I would say that's still probably the biggest impact that it had on me, it was like, I sort of just was quite content there, like more so than any other time in my life and just sort of know that that was possible without a ton of money or like a good job. Quotes. Was was liberating.

Jennifer Logue: 17:51

That's huge, though, to be content they are able to present in your art. Yeah, and what you're creating and give it your all like in that regard. Uh huh.

Brian Clark: 17:59

Yeah. Yeah. And not to worry so much about whether anybody likes it or what they think of you for it. That's also I mean, during that census, where I met Bruno, and Christina, which we'll get to, which is how Vesper came about to so that was 10 years ago, I met them actually. So yeah, so relationships from there have been impactful on my life.

Jennifer Logue: 18:26

Incredible. So now we're gonna get into the part of the podcast where we talk about creativity. In general, what is your definition of creativity?

Brian Clark: 18:36

I feel like, I mean, I feel like if I really like dig deep in and what and like, because it's honestly something I don't think about very often at all, and I think it's, I think it's kind of one of those words, there's a lot of words now that really have almost become like cliches, like they don't have mean people say them so much that they don't really have any meaning. And I think that I've kind of accepted, accepted it as a meaningless word when I when I go like day to day. I mean, I think I said earlier that it's about play. But I mean, I think that like yeah, when you're when you're, I mean, when you're trying to be creative, and like the good sense of the word. I mean, I think you're kind of searching for this feeling where they were, where you're, where you're doing something and you're excited about what you're doing, and it feels like maybe you're the first person doing it, there's nothing else. I don't know how to say this without using the word doing again. But there's nothing else that you'd rather be doing right then and I mean, it's a fleeting feeling like you get it for a couple hours at a time. Like, if you're lucky, like while you're trying to like create something. But I mean, I feel like I feel like the reason that people do keep kind of going with art and creation is sort of chasing that or not people but I is kind of chasing that feeling where you were you really everything kind of clicks. And, and again, I talked about how you know, movies came from a sense of just like, well, I like playing and that seems like what storytelling is. And so when you can actually feel like you're just playing and actually having fun. I think that that's, I think that that's like the good kind of creativity. But yeah, it sort of became a buzzword used to, like, make money. Yeah, I mean, like everybody, like, you know, like, Silicon Valley is hiring janitors to think outside the box or whatever. On the job application. And, and, I mean, maybe, maybe that's important, but like, Yeah, I mean, it's a word that's just been hijacked. And so like, hijacked by like, every sort of like, like, blood sucking industry to mean, like, find a way to, to, to be more efficient and make more money. And, and that's what it means sometimes to in our world, unfortunately. But, but yeah, so So I mean,

Jennifer Logue: 21:18

for you, it sounds like at its very core, at its best it is there's a purity to creativity, and it's a flow state. It's play alignment.

Brian Clark: 21:30

Yes, yes. I've heard until this first date on podcasts that I listened to. Yes. Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's just, it's, it's played some when when you get completely consumed, and and you're kind of joyful and excited about something that you're making, then, then I feel like that's kind of the best, the best version of it. And then, you know, but like I said, it's, it's a funny word, because, yeah, I mean, in my day to day life, I had kind of relegated it into the bin of, of meaningless words, which might mean that or might mean like, somebody found a way to, like, do the same amount of work with half the workforce, because they were thinking outside the box.

Jennifer Logue: 22:22

Definitely not on board with that definition.

Brian Clark: 22:28

It's such a ubiquitous word. So so yeah. But I would say that generally. It's funny that I say play because generally I think about it, it's work is because because, be it because of maturity or the demands of the world. I mean, you you you don't get into that state of mind often. And a lot of times you're kind of just doing the work. You're kind of chasing that or I am

Jennifer Logue: 22:57

there's a lot of discipline involved with being a screenwriter, what is something that the average person who romanticize the idea of being a screenwriter, you know, what is it actually like,

Brian Clark: 23:09

oh, okay, I don't want to sound like a curmudgeon, here. Um, I feel like if you read like interviews of screenwriters, and screenwriting books, except for like some of the most successful ones like the top 1%, who are just like, doing awesome, they'll have a lot of really bitter things to say about being a screenwriter and then the but then at the end, they'll kind of caveat like, but it's really so awesome because I'm making up stories and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Um, in terms of what people people who romanticize screenwriting, what they don't know. The experience varies like very, very greatly with Vesper, it was a pleasure because because I was close friends with the directors and because it felt it felt very collaborative and they were like even sending me cuts and I don't know we like we all and we all trusted each other and it really you know, at times like you You finish it and you read it and you're like wow, I created this like this is this is kind of amazing and in its own way like I don't feel like I've seen anything like this before and so and so all of that is can be can be quite good if you if you find if you find good partners to work with I guess I would say maybe that like it's not it seems like it should be solitary but like if you do it solitary the process can be quite nice. But the business side of it can really is probably the opposite of everything the you if you romanticize it at all. I would say that the business Is is, is going to be a letdown. And I guess the other sort of misconception maybe this isn't still a misconception, but I think it is. I feel like a lot of people have this sort of misconception that like, I certainly did. And I was certainly told this and I think a lot of screenwriting books and classes and seminars are kind of premised on this idea where like, Oh, if you just write an original script that everybody loves, like your goal, like actors, and it's really, I mean, your chances are better I think at winning the lottery, like just like coming, bustin out of nowhere with like, the scripts that everybody likes. The market for spec scripts spec scripts are scripts that you like, wrote on your own, and then like, take to an agent or whatever, and the agent takes them out. In the 90s, I think it was like pretty big people were like, getting the like, you'd be like, oh, so and so from Wisconsin just got a million dollar deal. And like, Shane Black and Joe Astor house, they're getting this and this, and it's not really like that anymore, because it's so driven by IP, by like, you know, adaptations or it's going to be like, independent. And so what I've found, the hard way is it's it's better to sort of like choose collaborators in advance and instead of like creating your own perfect screenplay, which you can, but like, it won't turn out that way, as a movie. It's, it's actually a little bit more practical to find directors who may be are accessible who haven't made like bajillion dollar movies yet, who needs screenwriters and like, find people that you're on the same page with and, and collaborate some like if a director has an idea for a script, but they're too busy doing other stuff? Like, that can be something that really works nicely and can get your vision there without, without going through the rigmarole of like having a billion people give you notes that are often stupid, and then the screenplays still not selling?

Jennifer Logue: 27:19

So with just ideas for screenplays in general, how do you know? I'm sure you get ideas all the time? How do you know? Okay, we have to do scripts on this, like we have to film about this? Yeah, gosh,

Brian Clark: 27:36

that's a question that I still don't fully know, the answer to my kind of stock response for a long time was just like, if, I mean, because you get kind of ideas all the time, like everybody gets ideas all the time. And, and so I would say forget 90% of the ideas that I have, like, I guess some people like carry on notebooks and write everything down. I carry on notebooks, I write some stuff down when it's like convenient. But generally, it would be the ideas that kind of like keep coming back. And, and that you keep kind of building on in your mind. And that some at some point, you could be like, you know, walking and just getting more and more excited. And then like a week later, the same thing happens. Yeah, I would say it's mostly the ideas that won't leave you alone. And then also the converse side of that converse, inverse, I'm not even sure inverse, probably. opposite of that. I mean, I've heard like that, you'd be just as you'd be, you do just as well. Taking maybe like, I don't know, giving yourself like a setting a character and an object that you have no personal attachment to and telling yourself you need to write a blank genre script out of this. Sometimes by writing about something that you think you're detached from, you can actually go deeper become more personal. And yeah, I've done I've done like I said, after sort of the first thing that I did, that was just like me having fun in France and writing a script, like got bought and made and the you know, it's fine. The director and I weren't on the same wavelength from square one. And I don't want to make it like too dramatic. But I mean, in terms of like, it wasn't anything like the script that I wrote. And it wasn't like the the final movie wasn't like, the thing. Like it didn't really make much sense. Which is like, fine, it happens. I try not to be precious. But then after that was when I decided, Oh, I'm going to try to work with directors who I already know. And sometimes, like, a director will be like, I have this idea that I want to make for a movie. And it'll I'll be able to actually go little bit deeper like working with their idea and could because no matter what, like no matter what story you're telling, you're going to be putting your own, like, personality and style and voice. And so, so yeah, I would almost say that ideas are maybe a little bit overrated. In every creative field, maybe at least in at least in sort of screenwriting. It's, it's a lot more about the execution and

Jennifer Logue: 30:36

each of the word right on my mouth, yeah, it's, it's really execution, it's everything, you can have a really cool idea. But if you're not able to pull it off, in the way that it is communicated, and if it doesn't manifest out of your head, totally, the way it could, it's just gonna fall flat, right.

Brian Clark: 30:53

And if you're not willing to do the work, like I am, lots of friends who I would say are more. And if you define creative, which I think day to day actually define creative as like having great ideas that nobody else has thought of before, like is the simple version. I have lots of friends who are more creative than me, the but but they don't, you know, they just like, bring out their ideas and joke and move on with their lives. And that's fine. Like, that's what they want to do. But, but I mean, you also have to sort of sit down and do the work and like, chisel away at the idea to really make it into anything.

Jennifer Logue: 31:30

Sacrificing that there's time, you know, like, people don't see all the hard hours you put in, like the sacrifices you make

Brian Clark: 31:38

totally, until they try it.

Jennifer Logue: 31:43

Back on the subject of Vesper, you collaborate with Bruno and Christina on the script. Yep. And you're working on more projects with them currently. And what do you love about this particular team you're part of.

Brian Clark: 31:56

So before Vesper, we had written, we actually had written another script from sort of conception to completion. Which Which option but didn't end up getting made. And, you know, collaboration can be can be difficult and can be touching go like, even with like your closest friends, like I know, people who have gone to like couples counseling counseling for like, for just like, their collaboration, their artistic collaborations with people. And, and so I think at this point, there's sort of mutual trust. And, I mean, we started off obviously, because we liked each other, I saw their first or not their first film, but their previous film vanishing waves in Paris at a film festival, and I was really struck by it, and got to know them because of that. And, and we also had kind of a similar like, passion for cinema. And we, we liked and we're also annoyed by the same things. And so you kind of come in with that, like, okay, where people like we like each other. But once you get into the collaboration, I mean, there's, there's a certain there's a certain like trust and mutual respect, that probably has to be earned, some people are better at maintaining it. And some people, it takes a little while. And I think at this point with Vesper, we finally have that now, which is nice, because we have like a sort of, we have a shared vocabulary of movies, but we also we also kind of know how, how we work with each other. And like, what each other's strengths are and so on and so forth. So yeah, I don't know, I guess it's it's really about surviving, like the rocky parts and the uncertainty and coming out stronger. You start working together for one reason, and then that reasons still there. But then over time, a sort of trust and respect comm. I like working with them, because they generally know what they want. Unlike a lot of people that I've taken notes from on scripts that like I wrote, their notes, we're always about, like, there's very few times where they have a note where I think you're just making the script worse, or you're just some people like to just change things so that they feel like they did something like an ego type thing, and that's like never, and so like, it seems like it streamlines that whole part of the process. Where I know that like any sort of extra work that I'm doing is to make the thing better, and I never I never feel like I'm just being I'm just kind I've like running around the block so that somebody felt like they did something. And yeah,

Jennifer Logue: 35:06

no, no. How did you meet? You said you met them in Paris?

Brian Clark: 35:12

Yeah. I met them because I was living in Paris. This is when I was covering film festivals, a lot of genre film festivals for a site that at the time was called Twitch film. And now it's called Screen anarchy. And so I had seen vanishing waves at a festival in Paris, but I didn't meet either of them. And then I met Bruno at a festival in Spain, where it was showing and we really liked talking to each other and stayed in touch. And then I met Christina, because they were kind of like a splitting up Film Festival duties on the movie. And I met Christina and Brussels. And yeah, we just kept in touch. And then they came to LA for meetings several years after I'd moved here. And we're like, well, let's try writing a script. And then again, it kind of went from there. I don't I mean, I don't know if they I sure didn't think it would actually go this long. It was more like, like, I think we were having drinks and they were like, Yeah, we should try to raise spirits. We've got these two ideas. What about this one? And I'm like, Yeah, that's not we can make that a script. And, and so I met them that I met them because I was I was a fan of their movie and, and it was a very, kind of creative and striking movie. But outside enough of the mainstream or like, they weren't, you know, they didn't have Hollywood like knocking at their door or anything. And so um, yeah, we became friends that way. And we're friends first, and yeah.

Jennifer Logue: 36:46

And it just happened organically. The best thing is do Yeah, yeah. What inspired Vesper? Like was there a seed of an idea,

Brian Clark: 36:54

seed, how to get the best for. So the Vesper my job. And I guess you're asking about romantic ideas about screenwriters. My job was different on Vesper than it was on the previous scripts that we wrote, because after that one, I think we both kind of like needed a break after the previous script. And they started, I took a different job and started developing this other project, and they sort of started writing the story that would become Vesper. There, we tried to make a script that would get done in like America, with the one we wrote previous to Vesper and didn't quite pan out. And so they're like, Okay, we'll make another movie in Lithuania, where we can, no, we can at least get some funding. The idea for them I think started by saying, Okay, we're gonna make a movie and Lithuania and the forests and Lithuania have this very, like fairy tale, brother like, like brothers grim look. And so they're like, Okay, we want to do kind of a fairy tale movie and Lithuania. And then Bruno especially reads like a lot of he seems to read like a lot of articles about like, new science and stuff. And so the Terminator seeds, the I don't know, if the seeds that the seeds invest for Vespers, in a world where sort of the rich people sell seeds that are coded to only produce one harvest those exists already, like they've already figured out how to make those. And yeah, really cool. And so yeah, I think they started building the world that way. And a, they have been interested in the idea of biotechnology as opposed to sort of the cyber internet like dystopia that everybody else is going towards the idea that like, actually, like gene modification could like overtake overtake the sort of mechanical electronic technology that we have now to where all of our technology would be essentially organic or organic seeming but like engineered by humans, so yeah, they put that all together and and basically came to me with the story and the world like honestly, the world of the movie pretty fully formed like we worked challenge with so then when it got to me, sorry, so then the challenge with it once it got to me is you can create a whole world again and you've got ideas, but it's like how do you make sure that the audience is immersed in this world without like, explaining too much or not explaining enough? I mean, you don't really you know, if you have like a new sci fi future that people have never seen before and then somebody's like, I remember when they first started engineering, the seeds only produce one harvest and then these crazy plant like nobody put it takes people out of the movie. And, and so a lot of we had a lot of conversations about how much information to give the audience and what we could show visually. And yeah, sort of, I mean, beyond like the characters and story which we got to like how to really like hone the world building, like in terms of the narrative. And so yeah, that's a long answer to that question. But

Jennifer Logue: 40:34

I was blown away by it. Like the story, the acting, the cinematography. And I'm really excited to see where it goes for you all. Like it just got released official right? September 30. Yeah, it

Brian Clark: 40:46

came out September 30. I think it's probably out of theaters by now. But it's, it's doing pretty well on VOD. And, yeah, I think it'll be I'm, I'm no, I'm very pleased with it. Which is, you know, not? Sometimes you write a script, and you're pleased with it, and then you see the movie? No, no, I'm very pleased with how it came out. And I think that, actually, it was more important for me than then even right now is I think it will be remembered. And I think it will actually, I don't know, I think with some hindsight, I think it'll be potentially perceived better, because people can kind of take when movies come out, like there's a whole set of expectations that people have. And, like, I don't know, when Bladerunner came out, everybody hated it. I guess it had that stupid narration. So maybe, I don't know. But in any case, I feel like sometimes movies once people sort of like once the people who like it, sort of like, you know, spread the word, and people watch it sort of on the movies on terms instead of their expectations. I think it will be remembered well. And I say that objectively, I could I could be wrong, but

Jennifer Logue: 42:04

how long did it take you to write the script? For Vesper?

Brian Clark: 42:07

Um,

Jennifer Logue: 42:09

you had the story

Brian Clark: 42:10

had the story, but there were changes to the story. Again, a lot of Yeah, and even like long sort of scene sequences, actually, the entire climax was changed to, um, it's one of those things where, like, I'd say that the first draft I did was six weeks of very intensive work like day, and then I and then, probably a seven hour meeting with Bruno and Christina and a, and then I getting more intensive as it went along, because I had a deadline. But, so so so that was about six weeks of really intensive work, and then off of that, they were able to, I think, raise enough money to where it was pretty certain it was gonna go into production. And so then you're rewriting it more for like, there's always a couple of things that you wish were better or that you know, like, we're gonna have to figure something out for this, but you just like don't have the time or energy to. And so we reworked some of that. And then it was a lot of like, probably another two or three months of tweaking. Usually, when I'm writing screenplays, I'm juggling other stuff. So it's hard to, it's not like I went to the Warner Brothers lot each day and worked for eight hours on the script, and then, you know, hit my deadline or something.

Jennifer Logue: 43:31

What are the three biggest lessons you learned from making Vesper?

Brian Clark: 43:35

It's a great question. They're pretty technical, to be honest. Oh, well, no, not at all. Okay, I'll start with the non technical one. Again, the importance of, of, of collaboration and collaboration without ego was a huge one. Because this was this was one that I worked on, were really from like, I don't know, maybe people who are more inside could tell you differently, but like, really, for me, from the producers, to the directors to everybody on set, like everybody was really just committed to making the best movie possible. And nobody was really like in it to like to like stroke their own ego. And it was just like, a really nice experience. From an end even like, yeah, even the concept art was like extremely crucial in writing this, this script and like, yeah, the concept artists was amazing. Like, everybody just like put their all into it. And so I would say that like, again, the kind of like, myth of like, the great, arrogant, confident artists with ego. I mean, it's important to know what you want, which they do, but like nobody was in it for anything except for the what was going on screen. From a screenwriting point of view I learned, I mean, these are almost related. One I mean as little dialogue as possible, unless you're like Tarantino or something, or unless it's like really like purposeful, but in general, like, even once I got on set and sort of saw the performances and how the actors like inhabited the characters, I think I sent them a draft with like, a bunch more dialogue cuts. Because when you're writing, I don't know, sometimes you need it to convince people to fund the movie, but before production, like cut half of the dialogue, because a lot of what you write on the page, like the actors will very much embody it, like you won't have to say it, and then it makes the scenes drag. The other interesting thing was just how, I don't know if they finished learning. But just what works on the page versus what doesn't work on screen is interesting. And I don't know, I guess this is a, this is a question of, if you can get better, I think you can, I think I feel better at like gauging what will work on screen and what won't, but this is one where like, you know, there would be a scene where we all agree, like, this is why it's here that like, this is why this style, like everything works. And then you just watch it in the movie. And it's really boring. And so it gets cut. And, and again, that's not like that's, that's part of the process. But it would be cool to be a little bit more efficient and be able to like, self edit earlier on. At least from a screenwriting point of view.

Jennifer Logue: 46:41

For any aspiring screenwriters out there, what do you know, now that you wish you knew, like 10 years ago?

Brian Clark: 46:49

Sure. Um, I think I already basically said it, it's it's that the, the sort of myth of the like, honing your scripts that would have been perfect for Schwarzenegger 15 years ago, or whatever, I mean, the idea that like, you can just burst out of the gate with an amazing like, giant spec script. So is, is more a myth than ever. And, and this doesn't apply to TV, which is a whole world I don't understand and seems actually more writer friendly. But for screenwriting, you're going to need to find a more creative path and, and that's why I do recommend, even if, like, get as good as you can at screenwriting on your own, but also like find directors and producers, who you like and trust and might want to collaborate with and who like your work. Because, and I mean, like at a, you know, almost at your level or at a lower at an accessible level. Because that's really, to me the the most direct way into into screenwriting as a profession. Because I think that there's still this myth so that like, go to enough seminars, and so on, have enough like 15 minute pitch meetings or whatever that like, you'll just get through the gate. And it's kind of staggering how untrue that is.

Jennifer Logue: 48:17

Well, thank you for sharing that. It's gonna be valuable to someone out there who aspires to this path.

Brian Clark: 48:23

Yeah, totally. Or they can. Yeah.

Jennifer Logue: 48:25

And what's next for you?

Brian Clark: 48:27

I'm working on I'm working on a new thing with Brenna and Christina that I can't really say too much about except the X excited about it, I'm very excited to be working with them again. Otherwise, I, I have other things in development, which I'm probably technically allowed to talk about, but it's just not even worth. It's not worth it until like, something kind of like, gets, like put in stone. So I've kind of got the habit of not. And then if if, if I get onto like we're Bruna, and Christina and I are still kind of like feeling our way through with the process of this new one's going to be but once that's more of a regular thing. I'd very much as much as I said, don't write a spec script, bla bla bla, I'd like to sort of for pleasure, go back to my roots and just write a horror movie. It's spooky season right now.

Jennifer Logue: 49:31

Oh, yeah. We do that. I feel like I need to watch much of hard movies now. And look at them from a different lens.

Brian Clark: 49:39

I mean, there's still like, I mean, it's still is the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but but I think that there's there's art to a lot of them and and yeah, like I said it was the only thing where filmmaking seemed accessible to me when I was when I was young.

Jennifer Logue: 50:00

And thank you so much for taking the time to interview with us on credit space. This is so fun. I'm so glad it worked out totally. For more information on Vesper, be sure to visit Vesper movie.com, where you'll find where it's screening next, and where you can watch it online. And thank you so much for tuning in and growing in creativity with us. I'd love to know what you thought of today's episode. What you found most interesting what you found most helpful. You can reach out to me on social media at Jennifer Logue or leave a review for creative space on Apple podcasts so more people can discover it. I appreciate you so much for being here in the beginning stages of this. My name is Jennifer Logue and thanks for listening to this episode of creative space. Until next time,