Creative Space with Jennifer Logue

Singer/Songwriter Avi Wisnia On Getting Unstuck

September 24, 2022 Jennifer Logue, Avi Wisnia
Creative Space with Jennifer Logue
Singer/Songwriter Avi Wisnia On Getting Unstuck
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

UPDATE:

'How Saba Kept Singing' premieres  Tuesday, April 18th on PBS!
Details  on how to watch here: https://www.pbs.org/show/how-saba-kept-singing.

For our inaugural “interview” episode of Creative Space, we have the pleasure of speaking with singer/songwriter Avi Wisnia. He’s performed around the world in venues like The Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City and The Kennedy Center in D.C., playing alongside artists like The Roots and Ani DeFranco. He recently starred alongside his late grandfather, David Wisnia, in the documentary, 'How Saba Kept Singing,' which was executive produced by Hilary Rodham Clinton and Chelsea Clinton. It recounts how music and love helped David survive nearly three years in the German Nazi death camp, Auschwitz. 

While the documentary isn’t available on streaming services just yet, you can learn more about David’s story here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcc8xCZ35KI

Inspired by his grandfather’s example to use music as a vehicle to heal and bravely move forward, Avi just released his second full-length album, “Catching Leaves."

For more information on Avi, visit: aviwisnia.com.

To sign up for the weekly Creative Space newsletter, visit: http://eepurl.com/h8SJ9b.

To become a patron of the Creative Space podcast, visit: https://bit.ly/3ECD2Kr.

SHOW NOTES:

0:00—Introduction

1:00—How did we meet again?

2:18—Musical beginnings with actual chopsticks

4:38—The Jets, Debbie Gibson, and Ben Folds

6:57—We create from everything

7:57—Fighting insecurity as an artist

10:22—Where does creativity come from?

16:20—Avi’s songwriting process

21:51— “Catching” Inspiration

24:33—Grief and a 10-year musical break

28:30—How music saved his grandfather’s life in the Holocaust

31:00—Returning to Auschwitz to perform with his grandfather

32:51—Music as a vehicle to move forward from pain

34:06—“How Saba Kept Singing”


Jennifer Logue:

Welcome to Creative Space, a podcast where we learn and grow and creativity together. For today's episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with singer songwriter Avi Snia. He's performed around the world in venues like the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City, and the Kennedy Center in DC, playing alongside artists like the roots and Anita Franco. He was recently featured in a documentary executive produced by Hillary Rodham Clinton and Chelsea Clinton, alongside his late grandfather, David is Saba how Saba kept singing. And Avi just has a beautiful creative life. And I'm so excited to chat with him as my first actual official interview for creative space. RB. Welcome.

Avi Wisnia:

I'm honored congratulations on kick starting the podcast. And thanks for that great introduction. Happy to be with ya.

Jennifer Logue:

Oh, my gosh, this is so fun. We've known each other for like 10 years, have we figured out the mystery of how we actually met?

Avi Wisnia:

No, I was looking back. And I know that we performed together at the tin Angel and Philly in 2014. So we've obviously go back further than that. Yeah. Yeah. 10 years is it's kind of wild. But I think it must have been something with with your involvement in rock on Philly, I feel like is maybe where we first met. But I feel like I always you know, like our circles, our circles, we're always circling each other. So it was like bound to it. We were bound to meet eventually,

Jennifer Logue:

especially within this similar trajectory from New York to Philly, you know, completely completely. Yeah, that too. But yes, and it's been such a joy following your creative journey. And all the magical roads, it's taking you down. Seriously, really magical,

Avi Wisnia:

that some expected some unexpected? Yeah.

Jennifer Logue:

That's what makes it magical. Um, I want to start at the very beginning. Okay, because this podcast, we're exploring creativity from all angles, and exploring artists, creative journeys, and your experience with creativity. When did you first discover your love for music?

Avi Wisnia:

Well, there is a story that gets told around the wisdom of households that I can't remember because I was, I guess, two or three years old or even younger than that. But my parents told me that from the moment like I could, I had the, the hand eye coordination to hold chopsticks, that I would kind of like, go around and drum on everything, you know, just like making rhythms with drumsticks just kind of like coming up with rhythm and making music. Just with whatever was around and that I was going to the keyboard and kind of, you know, fooling around with the keys and really trying to make out melodies from as early as I could stand. So I don't have a lot of memories of the of those kind of early days. But I can't think of a time where I wasn't playing piano and making music. So I know it started early. It's something I was really drawn to. And I think the thing that really started me of knowing how to make music for myself was when I started taking piano lessons at five years old,

Jennifer Logue:

five years old. Wow. You're such an incredible pianist. And you? Yeah, and musician, songwriter. And you recently got piano player of the year award, I think,

Avi Wisnia:

yeah, from the Delaware Valley Public Media Awards, that awards, the musicians, its local musicians and industry people awarding the local music scene so that that felt, I mean, obviously, it was a great honor and felt really good because it was coming from my peers and from the community, but also to be named, you know, best keyboard player because I've been playing since I was five, it just felt so validating, like, now, I've been playing for a long time, and I've been working on my craft and finding my voice on piano and it's what I feel most comfortable writing with and creating with. So to kind of be recognized for that felt, you know, just really there's a really special award to win,

Jennifer Logue:

for sure much deserved and you know, who inspired you back in those early days as musician?

Avi Wisnia:

Well, I remember being really drawn to a lot of classic songwriters like Billy Joel and Elton John and Stevie Wonder, Carole King. Seeing, and I think looking back on it, I was always drawn to a really good melody, you know, like a really good hook, something that I could sing along to or harmonize with, like, that's what really, that's what really drew me in. And of course, I was listening to the radio, and they Debbie Gibson, and I was obsessed with this. And I don't know if you know them, they're called the Jets. If you remember, in the 80s. There was this like group of, I think they were Hawaiian brothers and sisters, oh, my God, I watched or maybe they had a concert in Hawaii that I used to watch all the time. But ash kind of, do you know what the Jets,

Jennifer Logue:

I don't would not want to have to go into YouTube die, though

Avi Wisnia:

back, definitely have like, they have a best of album. And you'll know, they're like, definitely some radio hits in there. But it you know, it's kind of like that, that accessibility, that music had something you could really sing along with and sink your teeth into. But then there was also the, you know, the real musicianship of those songwriters that I mentioned, that made it not just a fun song to sing along to, but really interesting and did something unexpected. with it. And I think that's what I got really, you know, I think the person that excited me the most when I got a little older was Ben Folds, because he would do these things with a piano that was hop and accessible. But there was like a little bit of punk with it, you know, he would like throw his bench at the piano, or he would incorporate classical music and kind of Scott Joplin stuff into his piano just really turning on its head, what I thought of was a typical singer songwriter who used the piano. And, and sometimes that's, that's what you need to open up your own creativity, you need somebody to show you the way, right, what is possible that something different is possible, and then allows you to create something different.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, and it's so incredible. And artists use their art in a way where they're able to reflect the entirety of their life, their experience, like their influences in unique ways. And that's just, that is like, you know, that's what we all reach for, right?

Avi Wisnia:

Well, I think we're all you know, we are all the combination and the confluence of our influences, like we don't come out of a black hole, we don't create something from nothing, we create something from everything. And so we are the combination of all the influences everyone who we listened to every piece of art that you look at every record that you listen to, you know, the people in your life, the people that you love, the people that you hate, everyone that you take all that in, and you filter it, and you channel it, and it comes out in this unique combination, that's only you that you your voice, but it's filtered with all these people, you know, I have a I have a song called something new, that totally about that, because I was having this song writer's block about, you know, putting out Who am I to put out my music when there's people like Stevie Wonder and, and Billy Joel out there. And in order to kind of get past that, instead of running away from it, I ended up incorporating little bits and pieces of a lot of musicians that had influenced me. And it kind of became a tribute to them and, and through their influence. I was able to write this song literally called something new, but to create something new out of that, and you know, that's it's you pay tribute to the people that came before you, but you find a way to make it unique.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, and take your own experiences and being honest, like that. I can't think of as an artist I myself feel that like who am I we'll talk about this later. But you know, when you especially when you have a hiatus from writing for a while, but insecurity that like kinda festers

Avi Wisnia:

it's always there's always doubt and self reflection and it's yeah, it's a to twisty winding road we lead being a creative people.

Jennifer Logue:

Yes. And then we fight through it. There's the end of the tunnel that other people latch on to and relate to you like that song is so relatable and like, you know, the world needs that people need that.

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah. And you have to fight through it because the thing that I realized was the alternative to fighting through it is you stop create, you don't create you don't put anything out you retreat. I think you know, when when you're a creative person when you know it's your passion, you you you feel it you feel like that I have to put something out into the world. I just feel that drive and that's kind of what happened with the song I was like, I have to find a way to just put something out because yes They're all these great people that came before me. But I want to participate in that, you know, I want to be a voice in that conversation, I think I do have something to say. And sometimes the only way to find it is to start putting stuff out there and see if it feels right or not. And then you change and you mold with it. But you've got to just put it out there to start to start,

Jennifer Logue:

let's even start for sure. This is a very open ended question. But this is creative space. So I'll be How would you define creativity?

Avi Wisnia:

No, I think creativity is making something that doesn't exist. You know, and it's not, again, not creating something out of nothing, it's creating something out of everything. But creativity is really is really that struggle to, to create something that doesn't exist before. And that's through your filter. Or even if you're copying something, it can't be an exact

Jennifer Logue:

copy. Right? And when I cut her song, yeah, a cover song,

Avi Wisnia:

even even if you're a cover band, and you're trying to play it exactly the same way that somebody else did, it will never be exactly the same. That a because it's always filtered through. It's always filtered through you, and you're not that other person. And something certainly I mean, I love doing covers of people songs. And one of the most fun things for me is taking it and reinterpreting it in a totally different way, you know, do a jazzy version of the cure, or a swanky lounge version of TLC is no scrubs, you know. Because it's so fun. You're also playing with expectations, but they're, you know, they're such a wonderful pieces of art out there that sometimes it's, it's cool to play with that. Something that's kind of already already fully formed. But you know, when I, when I think of the word creativity, I just think of playfulness, like creativity is the ability to play, and, and have fun. And that's a lot of what I associated with making music is playing with other people and bouncing ideas off of each other. And you always find something that didn't exist before. When you when you do that, you know, jamming just getting in a room and making up songs or playing other people's songs. You know, that inspiration, just that fun. It's, it's having fun, and again, making something new.

Jennifer Logue:

Oh my gosh, that's the best place for it to come from. You know, it's just the joy. Yeah, creativity, I feel like the best things come out of that.

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, creativity, for me is joy. That's, you know, and it should be, it should be joyful. Even if it's something painful, there's some joy in that.

Jennifer Logue:

For sure, especially when you're able to take something painful and turn into something beautiful that other people can relate to, and get them through their own experiences, you know, that are similarly painful. 100% What do you think creativity comes from?

Avi Wisnia:

That's where does it come from? You know? Well, we could talk about the existence of God or not, but there is something, there is something and my dad's a rabbi, I come from a long line of clergy. Right. So there's definitely Judaism has something to say about that, I'm sure but there's, there's something transcendent about it. And I would, I mean, you know, use the word, I would even use the word divine even that might, that might mean different things to different people. But, you know, I just think about another song I wrote called rabbit hole, where, and this was, you know, back in my, my college days before I was performing out so this is a song I still perform. It's all my albums. But, you know, I like had started writing it a long time before I was performing. And I just remember, it was one night there was nothing special about this night, but I just had these ideas for these lines, and I kept going a bit getting in bed getting ready to go to sleep, and then it would like jump up because I would another line another lyric would come to me and I would write it down. I'd be like, okay, got that out of my system. I'll go back to bed and then another line would come. So it was almost like that. Some something divine, right? Yeah, almost like, Am I doing this? You know?

Jennifer Logue:

I dreamt a song once like I woke up and I had this course in my head. It was a good chorus. Yeah, I'm like, all the next day at work. I'm like, oh my god, like, I gotta record this like right now, but it's like, write it down. Oh, we recorded it. Okay, it's out no, nothing left to say. But it's, it's, I'm just like, I didn't do that. Yeah.

Avi Wisnia:

Sometimes you're like, How can I take credit for that, but it is you, you know, wherever it comes from. And then there are some songs where you really have to sit down and do the work, right? And like, make a very conscious effort to figure out these chords, or, you know, I've been this the story going on in my head, how do I write it down? So some things take a little more time than others. But yeah, I think that that ability to create is, I can't think of any other word for it other than divine, it's just something outside of us are filtered through us. That we create something.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, I like to think of it as CO creating with the divine. You know, like, we don't do it by ourselves. Yeah, but it is we do have to make the choice to obey, and follow it. Right?

Avi Wisnia:

You got to be open, right? You've got to be open to receiving that inspiration, wherever it comes from.

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, I got chills. got chills. So let's get back to songwriting. What's your process? Like? Do you have a typical process when you're writing a song or? We talked about a few ways in earlier, but

Avi Wisnia:

yeah, sometimes the, you know, when you have those moments where you have to keep jumping out of bed to write, you know, you're, you're onto something that's something special, but I don't have a typical process. But most, usually, when I'm writing, it's the music comes first for me. Some people lead with lyrics or, or a story or an idea for me, it's usually the music and a melody. So sometimes they'll be this song,

Jennifer Logue:

vocal melody or piano melody. Do you hear like voice? Or do you hear piano?

Avi Wisnia:

That's a good question. I think it's almost like, I hear just a line. And I usually play it out on the piano. Okay. And then on, actually, a lot of times, what happens is, I'll start singing gibberish over it, and just like, I'm hearing syllables, you know, and then from those syllables, what are those syllables? Sounds like, you know, it sounds like, you know, this kind of phrase with actual words to it. But very often, I'll just sing gibberish and just see what comes out. And that sometimes will give me a guidepost of like, you know, what is where did the Where did the notes go? What kind of feeling is it? I usually operate from the feeling what kind of feeling is the song giving me and then sometimes it's not until weeks or months later, where the story settles into place, or in a, the, the actual words fall into place of like, oh, this is what the song is about, or this is what I want to evoke in actual English and not gibberish. Yeah,

Jennifer Logue:

this is like blah, blah, blah. Number two on my phone. Yeah.

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, sometimes that's where the sometimes that's what it is just totally unintelligible you know? Maybe one day I'll actually write a whole song of gibberish that might you know what? That would be for the different album doc yet, you know,

Jennifer Logue:

but oh my gosh, just like an album of everyone's like, song like notes on their app on their iPhones?

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, I'm sure there are some gems and a whole lot of a whole lot of trash. There's trash also, that should not there are some there are some gems that we discard to or at least we don't give them the credit yet, you know?

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah, maybe you just had to come to some of Philadelphia song circle Philly song circle.

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, that's, that's that's what we that's what we do. We polish those gems, you know?

Jennifer Logue:

Yeah. That's so cool.

Avi Wisnia:

That's another thing that's given me inspiration is this song circle that I created with my friend Aaron Nathan's where we, for nine years now we've been bringing songs to each other and we've gathered our songwriting community started as a just a group of us in my living room. And we slowly got more friends and word of mouth and now we have over 400 members that common participate and that are connected to us through Facebook and people come from all over, you know, all over the area and once a month We get together and we workshop songs in progress. So we actually get to, you know, put these ideas that are not finished that are not complete, but we get to workshop them with our peers and with other people that understand the creative process. A lot of a lot of my most recent songs were, you know, were completed that way, or at least, you know, were able to evolve because of feedback that I got from my friends and these people that I trust in this community.

Jennifer Logue:

I just say that my favorite songs that I've done have been collaborations. Yeah, like, I'll come with something. But then when you have someone else working with you, it's just a completely different creation, and just it opens up so many more possibilities. And everyone brings something different to the table that you couldn't have done all on your own. And there's just something so magical and special about that. Like,

Avi Wisnia:

sometimes it's good to get out of your own head. And you, you need somebody else to help you do that. Right?

Jennifer Logue:

Yes. So bring it back to Joy. You know, I think it's the joy is easier to channel, when you're with your collaborators and your friends and stuff. You know, yeah. When you're on your own devices for too long,

Avi Wisnia:

right? That's true. That's true. You know, when you're left to your own devices, sometimes you can bring yourself down or you, you stop yourself from you start to doubt yourself, all those things creep in, right. And that's what other people can do, can can help pull us back out of that and keep us going.

Jennifer Logue:

We all need each other. Yeah. So

Avi Wisnia:

very true. Making music is definitely a community endeavor.

Jennifer Logue:

Now segwaying, a bit to your new album catching leaves. So it opens the title track catching leaves opens with these lyrics. I spent the afternoon trying to catch leaves, before they fell in the ground, couldn't predict where they'd go in the breeze got tired of chasing them down. And then at the end of the song you sang, sat on a bench and one fell on my knee, like, and when I heard that was, oh, man, I was like that is life. That is also the creative process sometimes. What was the inspiration for you with that song?

Avi Wisnia:

Well, quite literally, I was. I was actually trying to bring a song to my songwriters group, and trying to I'm trying to come up with one. And I would go to this park near my house in South Philly. It's Palumbo park this cute little pocket park next to the Fleischer art building, and has his beautiful, colorful autumn mural painted on it. And it was like a beautiful fall day. And I was sitting sitting on a bench and I was literally just watching the leaves and taking in nature. And I find a lot of inspiration from nature and the natural world in general that works its way into my music. You know, and I saw this, this pile of leaves, you know, kick up with the wind and swirl around in this beautiful chaos. And I said I want to write a song that sounds the way that that looks. So I was literally writing about the leaves, but it's actually the song is very much for me about it is about finding inspiration and trying to grab it trying to chase it. And sometimes that's, you know, like an impossible feat. Sometimes you have to wait for inspiration to come to you. And that's what happened to me sitting on that bench. That leaf falling on my knee at the end is inspiration finally coming to me. You know sometimes the things that we want, we can run ourselves ragged by chasing them down. But it's really not until we stop and take a breath and take stock of where we are and be present. That that life also happens and realizations can happen. Creativity can happen and you know, sometimes we're rushing around too much

Jennifer Logue:

back to catching leaves. It's been 10 years since your last full length release. So do want to talk about that a little bit. Like what what happened in that time?

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, I mean, part of you know, relating to taking a pause and taking a moment right and needing to find your place and and find your way back to creativity and the things you love. I was dealing with a lot of grief and a lot of loss in my family. And I really, I don't think I realized that for what took me a while to realize it, that I, what I needed was to take a step back, I lost my brother, who was 33, at the time, he's a little older than me. And we were really close, you know, I grew up, we've always been close. In fact, he was the first person I ever really made music with. He's the one that kind of taught me how to make music with people, we would jam all the time. And, and he would always encourage me to play music with him. And, you know, he introduced me to so many musical artists that I loved and influence my musical tastes. And so we were very close. And when I lost him, there was just this big hole in my life, and I felt very lost. And because making music, I always associated with him. It was weird to think about making music without him around anymore. And you know, grief is not linear, there are ups and downs. And you know, like, it's not a straight trajectory down or up, it's you just have to go day by day by day, and see how it goes. And as I said, it took me a while to realize just how lost I was, and that I actually needed to take a step back from music because it wasn't wasn't bringing me joy anymore. And especially that process of creating music and recording, you really have to focus and you really have to want it and be and know what your know what you're going for. And I didn't, I was I was really lost, and I really had to take care of myself. Yes. And reevaluate. What brought me joy and and find my way. Try and find a way back to it.

Jennifer Logue:

Your heart needed to heal. Yeah, no,

Avi Wisnia:

yeah. And I didn't, I didn't realize that. But I just I needed that I needed that time. You know, and sometimes that is taking a step away from just to get perspective. And then there's, there's also something that I tend to do, and I don't know if if other people do this too, but you know, sometimes you take a step back, and you're with yourself just for too long. And then you get kind of stuck there.

Jennifer Logue:

So I can relate to that.

Avi Wisnia:

Right? Taking a step away is good, but you can also get stuck there. Yeah, and you need somebody else to pull you back or you know, something. So that's where having community and friends and family and a good therapist comes in. But for me, it was always making music needed to like I really needed to want to do it. And it took me a while to realize that I wanted to do it again. I had to find my way back to that place of wanting to do it.

Jennifer Logue:

Yes. And part of you coming back to music. You know, we talked a little bit about your grandfather, David. And how performing with him, kind of brought your spark back a little bit.

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, this was, this was really something I never expected. My grandfather was a cantor. So he was a singer all of his life. And he was a singer when he was a young child growing up in Poland. He was a singer later in life, in congregations in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. So I always knew him as a singer, because I would go and watch him sing. And he had this big, booming operatic voice and everybody knew him as the singer and that, you know, he was always on stage in front of people and so charismatic and so confident. And you know, another part of my grandfather's story is that music saved his life in World War Two, because he's a Holocaust survivor. And he used his voice to kind of make himself useful to the Nazis in a concentration camp. And it's part of the reason that he was able to survive and then come to the United States. So music literally saved his life. And in 2015, he invited me to travel with him back to Poland. So he was near The 90 at this point in his life, and he was invited to go back to commemorate the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp where he was. So he was invited back by the government of Poland to sing at this place where these horrible, atrocious things happened to him. And first of all the strength that he had to want to go back and to your this place, and grandfather

Jennifer Logue:

is a magical human being, like, I watched. I watched that Buzzfeed video against it, it was a mistake, because I was like, bawling my eyes out. But just sidebar, you have to watch it. I'm sorry for interrupting Avi, please continue.

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, no, that's he, and in this Buzzfeed video, you get to hear his voice. And I'm so glad that we have, you know, some of that preserved him singing but also him telling his story, because it is a remarkable and painful. That's an important story. Yes. And so he invited me to go back to Poland with him to help him travel because he was 90 years old. But also, you know, as I had grown into my own musician, we started performing together. So I would go back and I would play piano for him. And being in Poland, in this place, where these horrible things had happened to him. And he had overcome and found a way to move forward. After all these horrible things. I mean, his family was killed, and along with so many other people, and the things that he saw, and witnessed and experienced. And then I went, and I saw him sing in full voice, knowing the life that he had created. And that he was still able to, not only to make music, but that music was

Jennifer Logue:

his, his, his gateway to,

Avi Wisnia:

to talking about things that he wasn't able to talk about, or to express things that he wasn't able to express in words. It was his way of communicating to other people was his way of, of bonding with me through music and teaching me his music. And when we were kind of arranging music together. Yeah, and he really inspired me that, you know, and I heard it in his voice, that even the horrible things that he couldn't talk about the pain was there, and what he went through was there. And some things I think I learned from him that some things you never know. You never move on from you carry with you, but you move forward with them. And, and one of those vehicles, one of those ways to move forward is with music. And so I learned that from him, and I found my way back to music with him because I ended up performing with him and helping kind of coax out his story and, and learning some of his music and wanting to keep his music alive. So he would tell me his story. And we ended up performing more together and ended up doing programs where he would actually talk about what happened to him. And I was a part of that I was able to help them with that. And it was through music, a lot of it that would help propel the story.

Jennifer Logue:

And then, I mean, it's, it's just such a beautiful, from something so painful. All these years later, you're able, you were able to bond with your grandfather in this way. Like and to travel together and to create something together that's making an impact on so many people's lives. You know, like, it's the most incredible story. I mean, I can't get enough of that video and the documentary that got premiered a few months ago, the hot dogs Film Festival. Yes. How Saba kept singing. I mean, I'm not sure if you want to talk about that at all. But it's just so moving.

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, I mean, I'm so grateful that the documentary exists because the documentary follows. The last time that we went back to Poland together. And it's the last trip that he ever took, you know, he passed away last year in the middle of COVID from not COVID related complications. But it was in the middle when we couldn't travel anywhere. So the last thing that we did when the world was open, you know, was traveled to Poland and go and do these performances, where he grew up and do these performances back at Auschwitz and commemorate. At that point, it was the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz and To have all that recorded in this documentary, you hear his story and his music. But you also get to see the two of us making music together. And I get to see him talk about what that means for him, which is really meaningful for me. And to know that, that his voice will always be preserved, you know, when I was watching that documentary, like, there, he was, like, alive and singing again, no, and I that's something beautiful, too, that I feel like as creative people, we, we create something and put it out into the world. And hopefully, now, you know, with videos or albums, or, or, you know, anything digital that's out there, like you create something, and it's, and it's out there for people to interact with. And hopefully it will be long after we're gone. But you know, that's our, you can't help but change the world by putting something out there like that.

Jennifer Logue:

So you got to put it out, no matter how, no matter how hard it might be, because the other side is so much better. Because I just think your story with your grandfather's like the just the most beautiful thing I've heard in a long time. So I hope people listening to the podcast, get to learn more about that, too. And you have a website dedicated to this project. Do you want to say the name of that in case people are interested?

Avi Wisnia:

Yeah, the website is called my Polish wisdom. And you can find it on part of my website, Avi wistia.com, because I started blogging about our travels together, just making these little posts. And I was so amazed at how just how impactful it seemed to be to people, just the response that I got from these posts of people following us and so interested in my grandfather's story and what we were doing and tracing his steps and the music we were making together. So I knew I wanted to put all of these posts and kind of the journey of the many trips that we took to Poland together. So yeah, that's on my website. And I called it my Polish whiz Nia, because my last name is wiz Nia. And in Polish whiz Nia actually means black cherry. So it's like a flavor. So everywhere we went, people would give us these, like cherry flavored desserts and vodka and all these things. And you know, it was just such a part of rediscovering that that history and of course, in the wisdom of family, we love to eat. So anything. Also very important. Very welcome. Yep. Yes. Yes. So there's a lot of eating a lot of music making. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, and I was able to record it on this on this one place. And, and the documentary will hopefully be coming out soon. We're just waiting for distribution. But yeah, it is it is done. And it has a lot of incredible support. You mentioned Hillary and Chelsea Clinton, who are executive producing it and it's I just know that my, my grandfather would be so happy that his is out there and, and, and living on and it was also that finding something that I could be a part of that was bigger than myself. Yes. That also helped me kind of find my way finding my way back to being like, okay, you know what, I'm ready to take a look at some of my old songs and dust them off and start thinking about putting new things out there and eventually finding the strength because it really felt like that emotional strength to Okay, I'm gonna put out a new album, I'm ready to put new stuff out in the world and I'm ready to put my voice back out there in the world. And you know it, it took that whole journey all that time to realize that it was the right time.

Jennifer Logue:

Thank you so much to avi wiz Nia for being my inaugural interview on creative space. Be sure to check out his newest album, catching leaves, which is available on your music platform of choice, and at his website are The Wiz nia.com And thank you so much for tuning in and growing in creativity with us. I'd love to know what you thought of today's episode. What you found most interesting, what you found most helpful. You can reach out to me on social media at Jennifer Logue or leave review for creative space on Apple podcasts so more people can discover it. I appreciate you so much for Being here in the beginning stages of this. My name is Jennifer Logue and thanks for listening to this first interview episode of creative space. Until next time

Introduction
How did we meet again?
Musical beginnings with actual chopsticks
The Jets, Debbie Gibson, and Ben Folds
We create from everything
Fighting insecurity as an artist
Where does creativity come from?
Avi's songwriting process
"Catching" inspiration
Grief and a 10-year musical break
How music saved his grandfather's life in the Holocaust
Returning to Auschwitz to perform with his grandfather
Music as a vehicle to move forward from pain
"How Saba Kept Singing"